Big Australia

[snert]

............

Having said that... if you own an investment property... I don't think it is unreasonable that you should not qualify for the pension. The whole idea of an investment property is so that you can self fund yourself in your retirement.

Not to my old man though.... his argument is why should I buy an investment because I will just lose my pension anyway.... they punish the people who work hard. There is still a whole generation out there that see the pension as their right... and it will take 20 years to fix that thinking.

I know where you're coming from TP. I've got a few older second cousins that are all very well off, I'm talking millions here, and I don't know how many times we've had that same argument. These cousins have been blessed with incredible good fortune, the kind that if they fell into a septic tank, they'd come out shining with gold, but they insist that they are entitled to the pension and no matter how you try to explain it to them that rich people really have no need for the pension, they won't have a bar of it. They all have worked hard, but so have our side of the family and those pricks somehow got our good fortune on top of theirs

On immigration, that will only be successful if the right people are brought in... along the lines of those who want to work and won't be a burden on the public purse, like the post war immigrants. Unfortunately, too many of the ones that are coming in now are not workers, those that bitch about our way of life and are intent on changing things to suit their ways, professional bums and I'm not talking about Africans here. I'm refering to the ones that have done a good job of sticking it up the Danes.

Nuke Essendon's comment that more population creates more industry and less reliance on imports is only partly true, because while we have people in China, Vietnam and other countries earning just a couple of bucks a day and we have to pay our labourers $15-20 and more an hour, our industries will never compete with these countries, therefore the imports will keep flooding in.

Its bizarre isn't it? We have it too good. While we complain about pensions, assets tests, income tests etc there are billions of people in this world that can't do something as simple as get enough food to eat.

[fordy]

To me, the pension is a bit like the public education system. Once, it was the norm, but standards (ie the amount spent per "client") haven't been maintained in real terms. So, you spend more of your own money instead of relying on the government. Private school students are government subsidised, but don't get nearly as many taxpayer dollars (overall) as the public school students - but generally have a better standard of education than public school students because their parents pay much more than the difference. Likewise, superannuated retirees are government subsidised (through tax breaks when investing the super), but don't get the taxpayer dollars directly like pensioners. They generally have a better standard of living than pensioners because they have more (of their own money) to spend.

[DALBY]

So true Snert. Most of us are way too spoilt.

[WCE06]

Reading the Sunday times yesterday and apparently Australia's migrant intake has increased from 100K per year in 2007 up to 170k this year. Funny - I dont remember that doubling our migrant intake was part of the Kevin 07 spiel! Put that in perspective- Australia is now importing the entire population of Perth, every six/seven years. That is mindboggling considering the problems of water / electricity and congestion we already have. I'd love this to be the next election issue, carbon trading is chicken-s**t by comparison.

[WCE06]

Hold. Now I read on the front page of todays West that companies can "sponsor" potential immigrants through offers of work in mainly professional vocations. Surely this will skew Australia's IR balance in favour of multinationals, who will simply recruit cheaply - from overseas sources.

[Mr Q]

Hold. Now I read on the front page of todays West that companies can "sponsor" potential immigrants through offers of work in mainly professional vocations. Surely this will skew Australia's IR balance in favour of multinationals, who will simply recruit cheaply - from overseas sources.

Wow. The West has picked up on something that's pretty well been running for decades.... Sponsored work permits, what a surprise!

[snert]

Hold. Now I read on the front page of todays West that companies can "sponsor" potential immigrants through offers of work in mainly professional vocations. Surely this will skew Australia's IR balance in favour of multinationals, who will simply recruit cheaply - from overseas sources.

Here we go again with the same old chestnut..."if we continue to take immigrants our way of life will collapse, our jobs will be taken and we'll be forced to work for nothing."

[shibz_1989]

Hold. Now I read on the front page of todays West that companies can "sponsor" potential immigrants through offers of work in mainly professional vocations. Surely this will skew Australia's IR balance in favour of multinationals, who will simply recruit cheaply - from overseas sources.

Well, I've seen it happen before. When I moved to Canning Vale and applied to work at Willetton McDonalds, they had just brought over about 10 Filipinos on sponsored work visas. Why? Because they want to work, and are willing to put in the effort. In this case, I believe it is right, because hardly anyone would want to work as a McDonalds manager. That's why it shits me when people whinge about "jobs being taken" when in fact, they are not. They are being offered jobs that a majority of unemployed Aussies think they are too good for. If you go to any of the McDonalds SOR (Willetton, Riverton, Canning Vale, Applecross, Bicton etc) they will have at least one Filipino manager. They work damn hard too.

[WCE06]

Hold. Now I read on the front page of todays West that companies can "sponsor" potential immigrants through offers of work in mainly professional vocations. Surely this will skew Australia's IR balance in favour of multinationals, who will simply recruit cheaply - from overseas sources.

Well, I've seen it happen before. When I moved to Canning Vale and applied to work at Willetton McDonalds, they had just brought over about 10 Filipinos on sponsored work visas. Why? Because they want to work, and are willing to put in the effort. In this case, I believe it is right, because hardly anyone would want to work as a McDonalds manager. That's why it shits me when people whinge about "jobs being taken" when in fact, they are not. They are being offered jobs that a majority of unemployed Aussies think they are too good for. If you go to any of the McDonalds SOR (Willetton, Riverton, Canning Vale, Applecross, Bicton etc) they will have at least one Filipino manager. They work damn hard too.

They are specifically targeting top end jobs not shit kickers.

[shibz_1989]

Excuse me, please explain what you mean?

[WCE06]

Excuse me, please explain what you mean?

It means doctors, nurses, engineers and high-value professions and trades will have priority over low-skilled workers such as hairdressers and chefs...none of which I really have a problem with except that they are talking about 170 000 every year which will likely add upward pressure on housing, downward pressure on wages and create a disencentive for govt / industry to train and eduate skilled resources.

[WCE06]

Hold. Now I read on the front page of todays West that companies can "sponsor" potential immigrants through offers of work in mainly professional vocations. Surely this will skew Australia's IR balance in favour of multinationals, who will simply recruit cheaply - from overseas sources.

Here we go again with the same old chestnut..."if we continue to take immigrants our way of life will collapse, our jobs will be taken and we'll be forced to work for nothing."

Yes I'm confidnt that if we double our population our way of life will decline

[Hamburger]

Excuse me, please explain what you mean?

It means doctors, nurses, engineers and high-value professions and trades will have priority over low-skilled workers such as hairdressers and chefs...none of which I really have a problem with except that they are talking about 170 000 every year which will likely add upward pressure on housing, downward pressure on wages and create a disencentive for govt / industry to train and eduate skilled resources.

Unlikely to ever really be that many professionals arriving per year. While they may target certain professions, those professionals face a lot of very difficult hurdles unless of course they are english.
To use doctors as an example......most foreign trained medicos do not have the quals recognised here, unless they have been to a UK, US or NZ medical school. They can migrate, and will pick up work as doctors in areas such as the emergency departments of hospitals in the cities, or out in the countryside (both places aussie doctors don't want to work cos its hard, long hours and you might have to make some tough decisions as to whether someone lives or dies). However, those foreign doctors can only do that for 5 years before their registration is removed....unless they sit all of the Australian medical exams. For a specialist this would be about a decades worth of work (work they have already done somewhere else). For any foreign doctor working as a GP there is a 10 year moratorium on getting a medicare provider number in most parts of Oz...which means you cannot set up a business as a GP here, or work in a private clinic. You might ponder who actually benefits from this particular series of constraints on migrants next time you try to get an appointment with a GP or specialist in Perth.
For those of you who wonder why it should be such a hassle for a foreign trained doctor to sit those exams? It costs a fortune, and certainly with the specialist exams its clear many of the colleges are actively working hard to exclude as many foreign doctors as possible. And before some cite the case of Dr Patel etc as examples of why we need to maintain high standards it's worth noting the notorious Dr Patel received his medical degrees in the UK and US and therefore was given automatic registration here.
My extremely clever, German trained medical specialist wife has won a university medal in this country for coming first in exams in the English language, and yet works in an emergency department because her specialist quals are not recognised here by a specialist college whose members drive around in German cars because they are so beautifully engineered? In the meantime she is the senior doctor in an ED department in this city every Friday and Saturday night.....that's ok, she can be trusted to save the lives of people who have had heart attacks, strokes, car accidents and assaults because she is dedicated and hard working.
All this means that anyone in her profession and a lot of the other professions will be put off by the problems with registration and simply go somewhere else.
We only came back here because I got a job in Perth I wanted to spend a few years on, but there really is no incentive for her to pursue a medical career here. I certainly would not contemplate doing all my degrees again in another country.

[Mr Q]

Yes I'm confidnt that if we double our population our way of life will decline

It will go down if we don't bring anyone in, as the percentage of the population in the workforce is going to take a dive over the next 20 years or so due to an ageing population.

[infiltrator]

On immigration, that will only be successful if the right people are brought in... along the lines of those who want to work and won't be a burden on the public purse, like the post war immigrants. Unfortunately, too many of the ones that are coming in now are not workers, those that bitch about our way of life and are intent on changing things to suit their ways, professional bums and I'm not talking about Africans here. I'm refering to the ones that have done a good job of sticking it up the Danes.

Fair comment. I've generally sympathetic to the boat-people that are trying to come here for the opportunity to create a better life for them and their families - that why our ancestors journeyed through tough, lengthy and dangerous over-sea voyages to get here, so if anyone should be able to look at that and find it inspiring (as opposed to something to get all resentful about), it should be us. And I am conscious of us having vast lands and minerals (jealously keeping it all to ourselves) whilst much of the rest of the world is over-crowded and in poverty. At the same time, I agree that we don't want free-loaders.

As an idea (that some of my fellow bleeding-heart do-gooders would consider an abhorrent infringement on civil liberties, but hey), why don't we allow more immigrant workers (such as the Sri Lankan boat-people) in on a particular, heavily-restricted new type of visa, that gives you no dole benefits, but entitles you to live and work in Northern (or regional) Australia only. You can settle in Darwin, work in the Pilbara or central Qld mines or the Ord River irrigation scheme, work as a cleaner or chef in a Cairns hotel, etc, but you can't just come and swell our existing major cities (you may need to notify authorities when you visit relatives in the south). Once you've been here for (say) 5 years with no criminal record and have established your credentials as a worker and tax-payer (say, have tax file records that show you've been earning money and paying tax for 80% of the time), we'll relax the restrictions on your location and you can be on a pathway to citizenship.