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2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

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2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:22 pm

Putting aside the value of the Kelly trade, we knowingly traded ourselves into a black-hole. "Boldly going where nobody has gone before."
We must use at least two 1st round picks in any 4 year period. That is the rule.
Our last 1st rounder was Brander in 2017. So if we don't have another this year, we fail.

Since we have no Academy or F/S prospects to attract a bid, our only chance is to trade. Even if we throw in our 2nd rounder plus change, we'd need to give up somebody of quality. Are we looking to trade Gaff back to Melbourne??

As with so many things AFL, what is not clear is the penalty when we breach. Logically, we should have been prevented from trading into this scenario in the first place, but since when did they do anything logically.
Personally, I'd prefer we not give the VaFL any opportunity to deliver another pineapple.

Supposedly one immediate effect is that we are prohibited from trading our next year's pick. No great loss, but this brings me to my next point:
Will we simply trade our 2021 1st rounder for a 2020 1st rounder? Which club might be willing?
Have we already done a handshake with Brian Cook?
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby MrWoollie on Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:54 pm

Said at the time of the Tim Kelly deal that we were screwed. We really should have said to Geelong, 2019 1st rounder, our early 2nd rounder we got in trade and our real 2nd rounder. Explain that we needed to use the 2020 1st rounder so it was never to be on the table. Take it or leave it.
We are the good guys here and are being generous. You are being a bunch of spankers and we'll make sure the whole world realises it.

But we didn't. And now we're royally screwed. Have to trade into this years 1st round while totally naked, bent over a barrel and crying out to receive whatever crap deal someone is willing to give us. And no choice but to say yes sir, thank you sir, I enjoyed that sir.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:30 pm

MrWoollie wrote:But we didn't. And now we're royally screwed. Have to trade into this years 1st round while totally naked, bent over a barrel and crying out to receive whatever crap deal someone is willing to give us. And no choice but to say yes sir, thank you sir, I enjoyed that sir.
Graphic, but true.
I can only hope that there was a handshake deal done with Geelong, to flip the pick from 2020 to 2021. Maybe something along the lines of their worst 1st round pick, in exchange for our 2021 1st rounder.
Otherwise yes, we're going cap in hand to the top clubs for their pick in the late teens, and getting rogered into the bargain.
So not only did we get screwed over in the original trade, it will screw us over again.

And the bugger of it is, that having traded everything again to get say pick 18, with all the academy players in this years draft, it will end up being pick 25+. Talk about the bufu that keeps on giving.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Mr Q on Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:43 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:
MrWoollie wrote:But we didn't. And now we're royally screwed. Have to trade into this years 1st round while totally naked, bent over a barrel and crying out to receive whatever crap deal someone is willing to give us. And no choice but to say yes sir, thank you sir, I enjoyed that sir.
Graphic, but true.
I can only hope that there was a handshake deal done with Geelong, to flip the pick from 2020 to 2021. Maybe something along the lines of their worst 1st round pick, in exchange for our 2021 1st rounder.
Otherwise yes, we're going cap in hand to the top clubs for their pick in the late teens, and getting rogered into the bargain.
So not only did we get screwed over in the original trade, it will screw us over again.

And the bugger of it is, that having traded everything again to get say pick 18, with all the academy players in this years draft, it will end up being pick 25+. Talk about the bufu that keeps on giving.


Given that Geelong's attitude to trading pretty much matches Donald Trump to any sort of deal*, it's highly unlikely that Geelong would do anything good for any other club. Ever.

*Trump: everyone else can go get fucked, there's no such thing as win-win.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:57 pm

Mr Q wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:
MrWoollie wrote:But we didn't. And now we're royally screwed. Have to trade into this years 1st round while totally naked, bent over a barrel and crying out to receive whatever crap deal someone is willing to give us. And no choice but to say yes sir, thank you sir, I enjoyed that sir.
Graphic, but true.
I can only hope that there was a handshake deal done with Geelong, to flip the pick from 2020 to 2021. Maybe something along the lines of their worst 1st round pick, in exchange for our 2021 1st rounder.
Otherwise yes, we're going cap in hand to the top clubs for their pick in the late teens, and getting rogered into the bargain.
So not only did we get screwed over in the original trade, it will screw us over again.

And the bugger of it is, that having traded everything again to get say pick 18, with all the academy players in this years draft, it will end up being pick 25+. Talk about the bufu that keeps on giving.


Given that Geelong's attitude to trading pretty much matches Donald Trump to any sort of deal*, it's highly unlikely that Geelong would do anything good for any other club. Ever.

Certainly I would never expect any remotely fair deal on its own. I would imagine that coming in cold Geelong would offer us something like pick 16, in exchange for all our picks, our 2021 1st rounder, and Andrew Gaff.

My only thought was whether a deal was "included" in the original Kelly Deal. Which could explain why we were so eager to conclude such a one-sided reaming.

Otherwise yes, we're stuck trying to find a "reasonable" club that will trade us a late first round pick, probably for our 2nd round, and 2021 1st rounder.
OR, we let Gaff exercise his option and depart as a FA, and pray for a 1st round compo pick.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:44 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:Putting aside the value of the Kelly trade, we knowingly traded ourselves into a black-hole. "Boldly going where nobody has gone before."
We must use at least two 1st round picks in any 4 year period. That is the rule.
Our last 1st rounder was Brander in 2017. So if we don't have another this year, we fail.

Since we have no Academy or F/S prospects to attract a bid, our only chance is to trade. Even if we throw in our 2nd rounder plus change, we'd need to give up somebody of quality. Are we looking to trade Gaff back to Melbourne??

As with so many things AFL, what is not clear is the penalty when we breach. Logically, we should have been prevented from trading into this scenario in the first place, but since when did they do anything logically.
Personally, I'd prefer we not give the VaFL any opportunity to deliver another pineapple.

Supposedly one immediate effect is that we are prohibited from trading our next year's pick. No great loss, but this brings me to my next point:
Will we simply trade our 2021 1st rounder for a 2020 1st rounder? Which club might be willing?
Have we already done a handshake with Brian Cook?


When Lycett was traded under free agency at the end of 2018 we picked up an end of first round pick as compensation. Does that qualify as a first round pick?
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Clarke Markx Goalz on Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:12 am

We have done a few trades with st kilda, Hawthorn, Brisbane and Gold coast that were quite reasonable. It's the trades with Geelong and Sydney that seem to go harder. though we did that trade with sydney a few years ago so they could keep their first rounder that would indicate a good working relationship. We should be able to get brisbanes first round with out too much fuss. It won't be very good but will ironically cost a first round or a good second round pick. they have their own and port adelaides first pick and no second round pick.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:02 pm

Fat Side wrote:When Lycett was traded under free agency at the end of 2018 we picked up an end of first round pick as compensation. Does that qualify as a first round pick?

I think I read somewhere that it didn't, but anyway we traded that pick (plus a rubbish pick for two 2nd rounders, that we used to get XO and Foley.)
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 pm

Clarke Markx Goalz wrote:We should be able to get brisbanes first round with out too much fuss. It won't be very good but will ironically cost a first round or a good second round pick. they have their own and port adelaides first pick and no second round pick.
As it stands both those picks look to be late, and so more gettable.

I haven't looked in detail at who is likely to go where, but the talk has always been that this will be a heavily "compromised" draft with a lot of Academy players. Fingers-crossed, that should make it easier to buy a 1st round pick, Clubs will look to either get picks ahead of likely bids, or will trade backwards for extra points. Plus some will be happy to trade for future picks, and carry the points deficit over.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Pinion King on Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:30 am

Dogs will be wanting points.

Adelaide will most likely have a go at their NextGen (I forget his name) with pick one, who is expected to be the number one pick.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:53 am

https://www.afl.com.au/news/498734/hands-tied-why-two-big-vic-clubs-can-t-trade-first-pick
The Eagles traded out their first-round picks in 2019 and 2020 last year to bring star midfielder Tim Kelly back to Western Australia, having used first-round picks in 2016-17 when the rolling period was underway.

Having now gone three seasons without a first-round pick, the Eagles will be barred from sending their 2021 first-round pick to any club in a trade deal.
So in others words:
We should never have been allowed to trade both 1st round picks for Kelly,
but the VFL was only to happy to help pull our trousers down.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby CouchPotato on Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:18 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:https://www.afl.com.au/news/498734/hands-tied-why-two-big-vic-clubs-can-t-trade-first-pick
The Eagles traded out their first-round picks in 2019 and 2020 last year to bring star midfielder Tim Kelly back to Western Australia, having used first-round picks in 2016-17 when the rolling period was underway.

Having now gone three seasons without a first-round pick, the Eagles will be barred from sending their 2021 first-round pick to any club in a trade deal.
So in others words:
We should never have been allowed to trade both 1st round picks for Kelly,
but the VFL was only to happy to help pull our trousers down.


That's an odd way to read that article. It says to me that we don't need to trade into the first round this year - which was your concern in the OP.

So, that's good news?

I think the second and third rounders we have will result in some surprising players falling to our picks - given there's been little to no underage footy this year - and we take the best available
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:05 pm

CouchPotato wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:https://www.afl.com.au/news/498734/hands-tied-why-two-big-vic-clubs-can-t-trade-first-pick
The Eagles traded out their first-round picks in 2019 and 2020 last year to bring star midfielder Tim Kelly back to Western Australia, having used first-round picks in 2016-17 when the rolling period was underway.

Having now gone three seasons without a first-round pick, the Eagles will be barred from sending their 2021 first-round pick to any club in a trade deal.
So in others words:
We should never have been allowed to trade both 1st round picks for Kelly,
but the VFL was only to happy to help pull our trousers down.


That's an odd way to read that article. It says to me that we don't need to trade into the first round this year - which was your concern in the OP.

So, that's good news?

I think the second and third rounders we have will result in some surprising players falling to our picks - given there's been little to no underage footy this year - and we take the best available

Granted its only an article on the site, so could be wrong.
But if it is correct, then my reading is that the rule should/would have stopped us trading both 1st round picks, but the league gave us permission, (thus enabling the [Greg Williams] to screw us to the wall) and so there is no repercussion this season.
So yes, its good news for us this year.

But once again shows the hypocrisy of the league, bringing in rules "to safeguard clubs" then throwing them out the window when it suits.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:00 pm

It appears to be yet another confusing rule from the league.
The rule says that a club must use 2 first-round picks in any 4 year period. But in practice it seems to be 5 years.

To enforce 2 picks in 4 years, we should not have been able to trade this year's pick. But in practice it seems that the only consequence is that we can't trade next years pick, so that will be 5 years.

It also means that we won't be able to trade 2022 either.
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Re: 2020 1st rnd Pick - Are we Buggered?

Postby Hamburger on Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:17 pm

Reading through this thread it appears the 'rules' around trading are both Byzantine in complexity and Machiavellian in intent.
It seems we are about to be royally reamed and have somehow misplayed our hand in the past.
Now that may be true, but this is not a normal year.
I assume most are concerned we have given up high draft picks at too high a price.
But this year, with the likelihood of reduced lists mandated for all clubs, there will be some angst for us over who needs to be delisted but also more opportunities to pick up players shed from other lists.
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