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2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

The list and its future

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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fat Side on Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:11 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:remember that 2 of those rookie spots are cat B, of which we currently have none.

I can't see the salary cap being a problem for us:
1) The overall reduction is only 9%
2) Players on pre-existing contracts have to take pay-cuts, so thats going to include all our top salary earners.
3) We have plenty of veterans, who each earn us a salary cap increase.
4) JK, Bunga, (and Jetts & Hutchy if retained) will all have taken pay-cuts on their latest contracts.
5) with so many fringe-players out of contract, we have ample scope to sign them on reduced or minimum salaries.

Besides, in the grand scheme of things, the difference between a rookie salary and a minimum senior salary, is insignificant. Not for the player obviously, but relative to the total salary cap.

The split between Senior and Rookies, comes down to management, rather than money.

Venables is on the Inactive List.
We have asked for special dispensation to keep him on that list, but give him the opportunity to play (presumably WAFL) if his rehab warrants it.
If that is denied, then he stays on the inactive list, and doesn't play.
But that give us an extra rookie spot, not another senior list spot.

We have shown, in recent years, a fondness for using the Supplemental Selection Period. And I think it's smart. We can have multiple candidates train with the club over an extended period. But it can only be used to fill Rookie places.

We have recently shown a willingness to be sensible with players not improving, and move them on, even after only a year. Players taken in the RD get a one year contract, but those taken in the ND (eg Ben Johnson) get 2.
So if we are using late picks to pick up roughies, then it is better to use the RD.

Senior List 36~38 (38):
need to free up 1~4 places
Venables - Delist or Inactive List
Rioli - Delist? and Rookie?
Ainsworth - Delist & Rookie?
Hutchy - Retire?
Jetts - Retire?
ND = one live selection, or trade out for next year.
Promote Edwards.

Rookie List 4~7 (3):
Jones - Retain
Ah Chee - Retain?
Edwards - Promote
add Rioli?
add Ainsworth?
RD = 1~2 picks
SSP = 1~2 players


Good points there. Ainsworth will remain on the senior list as should Rioli. I have little doubt that, should we delist Rioli with the intention of taking him in the rookie draft, that other clubs will offer him senior positions as a delisted FA. As much as I agree that we have been using the SSP to have a look-see at players, none have had an impact and only Jones remains (at the moment).

I'm not sure what the contract situation is with Venables, but he needs to be rookied if contracted.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Mykidsdad on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:07 pm

Have heard that Jetta isn't getting a new contract
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Pinion King on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:27 pm

Mykidsdad wrote:Have heard that Jetta isn't getting a new contract

Yep, club has confirmed.

Just Waiting on Vardy, Hutchings and AhChee now.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fat Side on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:41 pm

Mykidsdad wrote:Have heard that Jetta isn't getting a new contract


Necessary, but sad all the same. A real character and highly skilled player. I loved watching him play and will miss the long penetrating kicks from half back. I won't forget the late snap for goal against Collingwood in the 2018 Qualifying Final that all but put the result beyond doubt. Nor will I forget how he took Liam Ryan under his wing in the GF to mentally move him past disappointment to play a critical role in the play that won us the premiership.

He has been a terrific role model and mentor for the young aboriginal players in our team including Liam Ryan, Frankie Watson and Willie Rioli. He will be missed around the club.

Most importantly he leaves our club a Premiership Player.

He has an impressive CV after 202 AFL games (of which 75 were in the blue and gold) for two clubs and two premierships. A champion player who I have enormous respect for and I wish him and his family the very best for the future.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:49 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Mykidsdad wrote:Have heard that Jetta isn't getting a new contract


Necessary, but sad all the same. A real character and highly skilled player. I loved watching him play and will miss the long penetrating kicks from half back. I won't forget the late snap for goal against Collingwood in the 2018 Qualifying Final that all but put the result beyond doubt. Nor will I forget how he took Liam Ryan under his wing in the GF to mentally move him past disappointment to play a critical role in the play that won us the premiership.

He has been a terrific role model and mentor for the young aboriginal players in our team including Liam Ryan, Frankie Watson and Willie Rioli. He will be missed around the club.

Most importantly he leaves our club a Premiership Player.

He has an impressive CV after 202 AFL games (of which 75 were in the blue and gold) for two clubs and two premierships. A champion player who I have enormous respect for and I wish him and his family the very best for the future.

Strange that he has been delsted before Hutchy. f we had to keep one or the other I would have chosen Jetts.

Sadly, I think this was the right call, and I'm glad the club wasn't swayed by sentimentality. His one failing has always been his inconsistency. Ultimately that probably cost him his spot in the 22, and kept him out. It also makes him unsuited to depth. As a guy that could play anywhere from HB to HF, he could have been extremely useful as backup. But that would require him to keep his chin up and stay focussed.
Unfortunately it probably also counts against him getting a lifeline. With the right motivation he could be a handy pickup for some clubs, but I think the risk would be too big.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Clarke Markx Goalz on Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:15 am

Jetta will always be one of my favourite players but its not 2012 and he may be done. He has been more frequently injured and witherden looks like his replacement. With his leadership and experience he'll be able to find work in the community and do some good.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:42 pm

Media say Vardy likely to get a 2 year deal. :roll:
Why?
I like Vardy, and if we had to keep one I'm personally glad it was him.
And if we're going to go with two ruckmen next year, then having an experienced backup makes some sense. Especially as Williams and Jamieson continue to develop.
But surely it's a year by year proposition at this point?
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Hamburger on Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:46 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:Media say Vardy likely to get a 2 year deal. :roll:
Why?
I like Vardy, and if we had to keep one I'm personally glad it was him.
And if we're going to go with two ruckmen next year, then having an experienced backup makes some sense. Especially as Williams and Jamieson continue to develop.
But surely it's a year by year proposition at this point?


Risk Assessment.
1. we have one of the best (if not the best) stoppage ruckman/clearance specialists in the competition
2. But our best ruckman has a history of injury. many of them major ones which have forced him out of the game for long periods/seasons.
3. Vardy has performed in a grand final for us....kicked an amazing goal and then was involved in the winning passage of play and thoroughly deserves his medal.
4. We have let Tom Hickey move closer to his family.
5. Oscar Allen, a wonderful talent on a par with James Hird in potential has been pinch hitting in the ruck....but he is undersized for that role.
6. our two developing rucks Williams and Jamiseon are likely to need some years to develop.
7. And the most important point. Lots of clubs are looking for developed ruckmen and trade in ruckmen is commonplace with everyone looking to lure big men from their first, second, third or fourth club.
Conclusion. Offer Vardy whatever he wants to provide a security backup to our ruck division and make certain you outbid what others may offer.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Pinion King on Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:39 am

The new rule that allows clubs to move 2 senior players onto the rookie list without redrafting looks to have saved Ah Chee.

Set to receive another rookie contract.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fat Side on Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:03 am

Pinion King wrote:The new rule that allows clubs to move 2 senior players onto the rookie list without redrafting looks to have saved Ah Chee.

Set to receive another rookie contract.


Ah Chee is already on the rookie list. He was shifted at the end of last year. What this does though is allow us to move Rioli to the rookie list without fear of him being scooped by another club. An easy transition for Venables too (if we take that track)
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:01 pm

Hamburger wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:Media say Vardy likely to get a 2 year deal. :roll:
Why?
I like Vardy, and if we had to keep one I'm personally glad it was him.
And if we're going to go with two ruckmen next year, then having an experienced backup makes some sense. Especially as Williams and Jamieson continue to develop.
But surely it's a year by year proposition at this point?


Risk Assessment.
1. we have one of the best (if not the best) stoppage ruckman/clearance specialists in the competition
2. But our best ruckman has a history of injury. many of them major ones which have forced him out of the game for long periods/seasons.
3. Vardy has performed in a grand final for us....kicked an amazing goal and then was involved in the winning passage of play and thoroughly deserves his medal.
4. We have let Tom Hickey move closer to his family.
5. Oscar Allen, a wonderful talent on a par with James Hird in potential has been pinch hitting in the ruck....but he is undersized for that role.
6. our two developing rucks Williams and Jamiseon are likely to need some years to develop.
7. And the most important point. Lots of clubs are looking for developed ruckmen and trade in ruckmen is commonplace with everyone looking to lure big men from their first, second, third or fourth club.
Conclusion. Offer Vardy whatever he wants to provide a security backup to our ruck division and make certain you outbid what others may offer.

I like Vardy, always have. We gave him a chance, and he repaid us in full. I will never begrudge him his place on the list.
Just saying that at this point, a 30 year old depth player should be on 1yr deals.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:46 pm

Great news to hear that Hutchings has now also signed a one year rookie deal. I know he was injured this year but I feel his best is still there for him and is excellent; as a tagger.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:50 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:I like Vardy, always have. We gave him a chance, and he repaid us in full. I will never begrudge him his place on the list.
Just saying that at this point, a 30 year old depth player should be on 1yr deals.

A fair point and I pretty much agree. On the positive side because Vardy missed so much football early in his career his body may not be as worn out as an average 30 year old player. The club will know how he is physically and more importantly mentally.
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:51 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Pinion King wrote:The new rule that allows clubs to move 2 senior players onto the rookie list without redrafting looks to have saved Ah Chee.
Set to receive another rookie contract.

Ah Chee is already on the rookie list. He was shifted at the end of last year. What this does though is allow us to move Rioli to the rookie list without fear of him being scooped by another club. An easy transition for Venables too (if we take that track)

It’s typica VaFL bullshit.
Too many clubs (and yes, Melbourne Clubs) always wanting the league to kiss their boo-boos, and make them better.

With list reductions coming there was always going to be a problem with this draft, with teams being stuck with picks they couldn’t use. (We were smart and traded out.)
The first kiss was allowing clubs to take in extra pics to use as points, but that only helped clubs with academy kids.

So now, having cut the Senior List size, they have effectively reversed that and allowed clubs to take the cut in their rookie list instead.

And God no, I hope we don’t waste spots on Venables and Rioli.
If we keep Venables he needs to stay on the Inactive List, so we an then get an extra rookie through the SSP.
Rioli agreed to terminate his contract, and is now uncontracted. There’s only one reason to do that. Delist him whilst he serves any suspension, and the we can pick him up when he’s allowed back.

Keep in mind that we probably won’t know his status until after the drafts are finished.
And if it is somehow not the reaming we’re expecting, we could pick him back up in the SSP
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Re: 2020 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby MrWoollie on Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:34 pm

Hamburger wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:Media say Vardy likely to get a 2 year deal. :roll:
Why?
I like Vardy, and if we had to keep one I'm personally glad it was him.
And if we're going to go with two ruckmen next year, then having an experienced backup makes some sense. Especially as Williams and Jamieson continue to develop.
But surely it's a year by year proposition at this point?


Risk Assessment.
1. we have one of the best (if not the best) stoppage ruckman/clearance specialists in the competition
2. But our best ruckman has a history of injury. many of them major ones which have forced him out of the game for long periods/seasons.
3. Vardy has performed in a grand final for us....kicked an amazing goal and then was involved in the winning passage of play and thoroughly deserves his medal.
4. We have let Tom Hickey move closer to his family.
5. Oscar Allen, a wonderful talent on a par with James Hird in potential has been pinch hitting in the ruck....but he is undersized for that role.
6. our two developing rucks Williams and Jamiseon are likely to need some years to develop.
7. And the most important point. Lots of clubs are looking for developed ruckmen and trade in ruckmen is commonplace with everyone looking to lure big men from their first, second, third or fourth club.
Conclusion. Offer Vardy whatever he wants to provide a security backup to our ruck division and make certain you outbid what others may offer.


I have to disagree on Vardy.
He provides no backup as either a ruck (where he loses over 2/3 of contests) or a forward (where he can't take a mark or kick a goal).

In his time at Geelong he was a promising forward who could help out in the ruck. He was good for a goal a game, if you could get him on the paddock. Over 5 years they got 24 games out of him. We nearly matched that in 2017 with 22 games.
2018 was his best year as far as performance goes, but he still only managed 10 games.
2019 was 11 games of very low quality and 2020 was down the order to both Hickey and Williams.
Over his career he's gone from a goal a game forward threat who rucks, to a competitive ruck who does a bit of forward time, to a poor backup ruck who is absolutely a liability forward. Unbalances an already too tall forward line and does nothing. In his 11 games in 2019 he took zero marks i50 and kicked zero goals, zero behinds. And lost more ruck contests than he won.
And come 2021, even that'll be two years in the younger past.

As to your points.
1. Yes we do, but that doesn't impact Vardy's worth or value.
2. True, and this does make us think about backup. But Williams is already ahead, and a mature WAFL/SANFL/NEAFL ruck would be better backup. Using a higher risk, more injury prone ruck as backup to your injury prone champion is actually bad risk management.
3. So what. That was the high point. It was over 2 years ago and he's not going to get even close to that again.
4 and 5. True.
6. Jamieson, yes. Williams no. He's ready for games and has well overtaken Vardy already. In fact, we need to get games into him in 2021. If we don't, other clubs will come sniffing and he'll be gone. And he looks very promising.
7. They do, but Vardy created no interest in 2020. None. Zero. No offers. So just plain wrong.
And the conclusion. Wrong on all levels. You don't offer injury prone, marginal at best players what they want. He's no security that couldn't be better covered by a static style WAFL etc. ruck. And what others may offer? He was uncontracted and no-one offered even a future 5th rounder for him. That's hardly other clubs knocking down the door.

If he was never injured he would have ended up as a 10 year, 200 gamer. But he wasn't (never injured) and never will be (a 200 gamer).
I think it's time to accept we got the best possible out of him and there's not enough left to justify another contract.
But if we do, one year at a time please. Two is just silly.
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