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Stephen Coniglio

The list and its future

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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby MrWoollie on Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:36 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote: We'd be looking at something like giving up Oscar Allen, just not worth it.. Muppets will have a good pick, and undoubtedly put that on the table if he's available.

Absolutely.

Remember we had the choice of Allen or Kelly at that draft pick. And I think the club and supporters are extremely happy with how Allen is going. No way would we go back on our choice. He's 5 years younger and is tracking to be a 250+ gamer. And remember that Geelong would want something like Allen AND our first two picks. F*** Off. I wouldn't even do a straight swap of those two.

Let the muppets give up two first rounders or Hill, a first and second rounder for him. I guess they would also have the Ballantyne, Sandipants and Hill salary cap space as well.

On Coniglio. Would rather have him than Kelly, but the offers (apparent) from Melbourne of $1.2Mill for 5 years and the like from Hawthorn and Carlton make it impossible for us.
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:23 am

MrWoollie wrote:On Coniglio. Would rather have him than Kelly, but the offers (apparent) from Melbourne of $1.2Mill for 5 years and the like from Hawthorn and Carlton make it impossible for us.

Yeah,
and this is where clubs go stupid.
The Salary Cap is something like $12M, and the average works out around $360k. Two Thirds of the players get less than $400k, with most somewhere in the $100~500k range.
Yet last year there were 6 players earning more than $1M, and 3 earned more than $1.2M

Obviously Cogs would be a great get, but how do you say he's worth more than Gaff, Shuey, Yeo, Darling, Gov, etc.
and then how do you tell the next tier of guys that they're not worth $700k, and so on.
I'd actually be surprised if the Hawks were dumb enough to offer that much, but the stupid wanker clubs like Melbourne and Carlton will. Then wonder why having a couple of superstars doesn't win them a flag.

Latest gos is that Carltank's Offer is around $1.2M, front-loaded to $2M in the first season.

I actually think some of these offers should be vetted by the AFL. Clearly the morons at Carltank haven't learnt their lesson, but they shouldn't be allowed to screw things up for the rest of the comp.
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby Crazy Dazz on Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:50 am

Mr Q wrote:
Fat Side wrote:Coniglio is a free agent so no need to trade for him. It's whether we can fit him into the salary cap.


Restricted though. If he's after money, then there are clubs in Victoria (and of course in purple) that love throwing money at ... well any big fish that shows up. I think that we don't go buying big names at the expense of our existing players is a positive for our player culture, so I'd rather stay out of those bidding wars.

If it's not a big money thing, then GWS would just match the offer.

Either way, we aren't likely to get a look in.

Only way we get a look in, is if he wants to come home to us, and we can structure a deal that GWS won't match. Unlikely on both counts.
Supposedly we were one of the early clubs enquiring. That we're nolonger considered to be in the mix, suggests he will go to a high bidder.
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby MrWoollie on Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:02 pm

Basically it looks like...

The amount we could offer, GWS could match.
The amount that Hawthorn and Carlton are apparently willing to offer, we can't get close to and GWS can't match.

Especially the reported Carlton offer. $6Mill over 5 years, heavily front loaded ($2Mill, then $1.5Mill, then ~$650K x 4) is a no chance to match/beat offer. Great thinking by Carlton. They get to pay out the big bucks early, then have an A grader for very average mature player money just as the up and comers from their draft raids go off the low $ contracts.
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby Crazy Dazz on Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:11 pm

MrWoollie wrote:Basically it looks like...

The amount we could offer, GWS could match.
The amount that Hawthorn and Carlton are apparently willing to offer, we can't get close to and GWS can't match.

Especially the reported Carlton offer. $6Mill over 5 years, heavily front loaded ($2Mill, then $1.5Mill, then ~$650K x 4) is a no chance to match/beat offer. Great thinking by Carlton. They get to pay out the big bucks early, then have an A grader for very average mature player money just as the up and comers from their draft raids go off the low $ contracts.

It would be interesting to know...
We've re-contracted some guys for less, and put some guys on long contracts, which could be back-loaded (or front-loaded or neither). We could have a war-chest for chasing Kelly or Coniglio.

But I simply don't believe that any player is worth $1.2M. Certainly not Coniglio. That's 10% of your cap, on one player. I'd pay that for an Ablett, Judd, or Healthy NN, at the top of their game. If we believe everything reported in the press, there'd be 20~30 players earning a million bucks. But according to the AFL there were only 6 last year.

I don't understand exactly how it works, perhaps these numbers include endorsements that are not part of the cap??
My comment is that devoting 10% of your cap each to your top players is a difficult model to sustain, and clubs paying way over the top to lure one player are making a big mistake.

Coniglio would be great to have, but I wouldn't sell the farm to get him.

That said, I still fall back to the fact that we never really know who's getting paid what, and just have to trust the club. I see no evidence that they aren't doing a good job of managing this.
I think what we can safely say, is that if it comes down to simply who makes the highest offer, then we're not going to outbid the lunatic clubs like carltank.

And if Coniglio doesn't even care about playing finals, and simply signs on with Carltank for maximum dollars (like a certain person before him) well good "luck"(/riddance).
Last edited by Crazy Dazz on Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby Fat Side on Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:33 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:
MrWoollie wrote:Basically it looks like...

The amount we could offer, GWS could match.
The amount that Hawthorn and Carlton are apparently willing to offer, we can't get close to and GWS can't match.

Especially the reported Carlton offer. $6Mill over 5 years, heavily front loaded ($2Mill, then $1.5Mill, then ~$650K x 4) is a no chance to match/beat offer. Great thinking by Carlton. They get to pay out the big bucks early, then have an A grader for very average mature player money just as the up and comers from their draft raids go off the low $ contracts.


But I simply don't believe that any player is worth $1.2M. Certainly not Coniglio. That's 10% of your cap, on one player. I'd pay that for an Ablett, Judd, or Healthy NN, at the top of their game.


McGovern is being paid around that figure
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby Crazy Dazz on Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:28 pm

Giant for Life now.

I admire his loyalty to his teammates, although its kinda sad to see guys like him and Swallow pledging their careers to teams nobody gives a rats arse about.
GWS have done better than GC, but still amounted to nothing.
Won't be surprised if one day I read the VaFL has decided to abandon them both.

It's a double-pisser that during that period we were denied a crack at a whole swag of WA talent.
And predictions they'd want to come home didn't eventuate.

Obviously he'd be on good coin, I wonder how close they had to get to the stupid carltank offer?
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby jourgo on Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:47 am

If the numbers are to be believed, the tank were offering $1.3m/year and he "settled" for just over $1m/year.

YIKES!
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby Fat Side on Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:29 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:Giant for Life now.

I admire his loyalty to his teammates, although its kinda sad to see guys like him and Swallow pledging their careers to teams nobody gives a rats arse about.
GWS have done better than GC, but still amounted to nothing.
Won't be surprised if one day I read the VaFL has decided to abandon them both.

It's a double-pisser that during that period we were denied a crack at a whole swag of WA talent.
And predictions they'd want to come home didn't eventuate.

Obviously he'd be on good coin, I wonder how close they had to get to the stupid carltank offer?


There is absolutely no way the AFL will abandon either. Despite performances, the game has grown significantly in both of those markets since their inception.

The clubs that need to go are the perennial debt ridden, constantly bailed out Melbourne clubs like St Kilda, North and the Bulldogs. Scrap two of them and send the other to Tassie. Melbourne is a flooded market and rationalisation is required.
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Re: Stephen Coniglio

Postby MrWoollie on Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:31 pm

Fat Side wrote:The clubs that need to go are the perennial debt ridden, constantly bailed out Melbourne clubs like St Kilda, North and the Bulldogs. Scrap two of them and send the other to Tassie. Melbourne is a flooded market and rationalisation is required.

A fan of none of the three, I think I can look at it a bit dispassionately. To start, I would argue a bit differently to the fold two/move one argument. Looking at each club...

Of the three, the logical one to keep geographically is Foot-es-cray. It basically has all of West and SW Melbourne to build a base in. This includes Sunshine, Laverton, Werribee and so on. To fold Footscray would mean the entire western half of Melbourne would belong to Essendon.

Next in line is St Kilda. Fighting with Hawthorn (and losing) for the SE and E. But one of the old clubs and if run better should have been able to build and keep a supporter base. In the 70s and 80s the Hawks put a lot of work into making the SE their own. Basing in Waverley and all that. Saints missed a trick (or five) throughout that time period. Could have been the team of the SE but stuck with their shitty little navel gazing single suburb ideology. But nervous about folding the Saints and handing the giant SE to Hawthorn. Remember, in the sixties and seventies it was the Hawks who were the low supporter base, fold the club option.

Norf is just crammed in between better supported, better managed clubs. Has no geographical area to grow into and a very small supporter base. Norf are just going nowhere as an entity. Never have, never will. The logical Tassie team if ever there was one if we are keeping an 18 team comp.

The other squeezed team is Melbourne. But they've got the name. Not much else, but they've got that.

So first things first.
If we keep an 18 team comp then it's Norf to Tassie.
If we want a 16 team comp it's a little more difficult. Fold Norf, merge the Saints and Melbourne and move them to Tassie would be most logical if we accept that GWS and GC are sacred.
Better would be fold Norf, fold GC and move Melbourne or the Saints to Tassie.
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