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Free Agent Targets 2018

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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby jourgo on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:23 am

Streaker wrote:Geelong have now offered Dalhaus a 4 year deal.

How can they fit Selwood, Dangerfield, Hawkins, Ablett, Duncan, Bliclavs, Taylor and Stanley in the salary cap and yet we can't manage to keep Lycett etc.


I can't see Ablett, Taylor or Stanley being on anything like big money. Duncan & Bliclavs probably on a bit more but again, nothing huge. Dangerfield would be on good coin but not the kind of money he'd still be getting if he were at Adelaide.

As far as Lycett goes, I really don't imagine money is the sticking point. If he is demanding McGovern-type money then let him go - he's just not that good. I'd be more of a mind that opportunity would be his prime motivation.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Mr Q on Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:45 am

jourgo wrote:I'd be more of a mind that opportunity would be his prime motivation.


He'd be guaranteed being the #1 ruck at the Eagles for 2019, and would almost certainly remain so when Naitanui returns in 2020, as I can't see Nat being ever able to take a 100% ruck load again (I'd see him more as a ruck/forward monster now). Port still have Ryder.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby CouchPotato on Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:01 am

Mr Q wrote:
jourgo wrote:I'd be more of a mind that opportunity would be his prime motivation.


He'd be guaranteed being the #1 ruck at the Eagles for 2019, and would almost certainly remain so when Naitanui returns in 2020, as I can't see Nat being ever able to take a 100% ruck load again (I'd see him more as a ruck/forward monster now). Port still have Ryder.


Just not sure on Lycett - if he is moving as reported.

He signed with us last time for 4 years and came out in the media about loyalty and all that. He's had good opportunities in that time, and will now be expected to take the primary mantle at a big club which looks likely to stay relevant for a number of years.

To move to Port seems like an odd decision - a team of old '2nd chance saloon' free agents eating up their salary cap at the expense of youth.

I'm also less sure on his ability - he seems so capable in some games, and so poor in others. Is he a ruckman you want to build a midfield around? He's no Mumford, Sandi, Cox, Grundy, Gawn etc... but he's only 25, so there's more to come. We've spent years developing him (at the expense of recruiting any others) which is now wasted.

I'm sort of 50:50 about the whole thing. If he stays, I'm hoping its on a reasonable $$ amount (not overs) and I'm probably happy. If he goes, I'm more bothered by the fact he has left us with no ruckman at such an important time than I am by losing 'Scott Lycett' as a superstar ruckman.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Fat Side on Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:15 am

Mr Q wrote:
jourgo wrote:I'd be more of a mind that opportunity would be his prime motivation.


He'd be guaranteed being the #1 ruck at the Eagles for 2019, and would almost certainly remain so when Naitanui returns in 2020, as I can't see Nat being ever able to take a 100% ruck load again (I'd see him more as a ruck/forward monster now). Port still have Ryder.


Clearly Lycett's decision isn't about opportunity other than Ryder is pushing into his 30s. If Ryder is fit, Ryder plays. Unless PA change their game plan, they won't play two rucks. Ryder appears to have chronic Achilles problems, but he still plays most games. Port also have Billy Frampton and Sam Hayes on their list. Hayes was considered the best ruck in last year's draft. The fact that the best ruck in the draft goes at pick 47 says something about rucks across the competition. It seems obvious that there is a greater supply of rucks with diminishing demand. Most rucks last year went in the rookie draft. If a ruck is not exceptional, they will need to be forward hybrids. I am not sure Lycett is either of those to any great deal. Perhaps he will become one or the other.

Unless Ryder retires or PA start playing two rucks (which seems nonsensical given they have Dixon and Westhoff), Lycett will be playing a second string role.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Mr Q wrote:
jourgo wrote:I'd be more of a mind that opportunity would be his prime motivation.


He'd be guaranteed being the #1 ruck at the Eagles for 2019, and would almost certainly remain so when Naitanui returns in 2020, as I can't see Nat being ever able to take a 100% ruck load again (I'd see him more as a ruck/forward monster now). Port still have Ryder.


Clearly Lycett's decision isn't about opportunity other than Ryder is pushing into his 30s. If Ryder is fit, Ryder plays. Unless PA change their game plan, they won't play two rucks. Ryder appears to have chronic Achilles problems, but he still plays most games. Port also have Billy Frampton and Sam Hayes on their list. Hayes was considered the best ruck in last year's draft. The fact that the best ruck in the draft goes at pick 47 says something about rucks across the competition. It seems obvious that there is a greater supply of rucks with diminishing demand. Most rucks last year went in the rookie draft. If a ruck is not exceptional, they will need to be forward hybrids. I am not sure Lycett is either of those to any great deal. Perhaps he will become one or the other.

Unless Ryder retires or PA start playing two rucks (which seems nonsensical given they have Dixon and Westhoff), Lycett will be playing a second string role.


No, I think what this says is that it takes five to six years of development for most rucks - maybe with injuries to overcome during this time - at which time they will become free agents; so why bother drafting them? Why not just do what Port Adelaide are attempting to do with Lycett (though I'm not convinced he is gone) and pick them up as free agents or disgruntled players when required. Certainly not worth a high draft pick in most cases, they would have to be exceptional such as NN.

Lycett probably would count as exceptional when drafted so it's a pity he was injured pron when key opportunities came his way. Now he's finally proving the worth of all that development he is a risk of leaving, doh! Oh well he can at least help us win a premiership this year!
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Fat Side on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:13 pm

Fair Bump Play On wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
Mr Q wrote:
He'd be guaranteed being the #1 ruck at the Eagles for 2019, and would almost certainly remain so when Naitanui returns in 2020, as I can't see Nat being ever able to take a 100% ruck load again (I'd see him more as a ruck/forward monster now). Port still have Ryder.


Clearly Lycett's decision isn't about opportunity other than Ryder is pushing into his 30s. If Ryder is fit, Ryder plays. Unless PA change their game plan, they won't play two rucks. Ryder appears to have chronic Achilles problems, but he still plays most games. Port also have Billy Frampton and Sam Hayes on their list. Hayes was considered the best ruck in last year's draft. The fact that the best ruck in the draft goes at pick 47 says something about rucks across the competition. It seems obvious that there is a greater supply of rucks with diminishing demand. Most rucks last year went in the rookie draft. If a ruck is not exceptional, they will need to be forward hybrids. I am not sure Lycett is either of those to any great deal. Perhaps he will become one or the other.

Unless Ryder retires or PA start playing two rucks (which seems nonsensical given they have Dixon and Westhoff), Lycett will be playing a second string role.


No, I think what this says is that it takes five to six years of development for most rucks - maybe with injuries to overcome during this time - at which time they will become free agents; so why bother drafting them? Why not just do what Port Adelaide are attempting to do with Lycett (though I'm not convinced he is gone) and pick them up as free agents or disgruntled players when required. Certainly not worth a high draft pick in most cases, they would have to be exceptional such as NN.

Lycett probably would count as exceptional when drafted so it's a pity he was injured pron when key opportunities came his way. Now he's finally proving the worth of all that development he is a risk of leaving, doh! Oh well he can at least help us win a premiership this year!


You make some good points, but the fact is that less rucks play these days. Most teams go with one ruck and another player to pinch hit. Westhoff at PA to Grigg at Richmond. The fact that a club can play a 190cm second ruck and win the flag is significant. Adelaide (the GF opponent) play one ruck and a key forward to pinch hit. In the past clubs would play two specialist rucks and one would go forward for a rest.

It's a testing time for ruckman at the moment and it's interesting that two rucks made the AA team despite very few clubs playing two. On the flipside, we are now seeing KPD and KPFs pushing beyond 200cm. Gold Coast has Thompson at 200cm and Peter Wright at 203cm in their key forward and defensive posts and that's one example. I suppose the lifeline for rucks is to adapt to key positions.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:13 am

Fat Side wrote:
Fair Bump Play On wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
Clearly Lycett's decision isn't about opportunity other than Ryder is pushing into his 30s. If Ryder is fit, Ryder plays. Unless PA change their game plan, they won't play two rucks. Ryder appears to have chronic Achilles problems, but he still plays most games. Port also have Billy Frampton and Sam Hayes on their list. Hayes was considered the best ruck in last year's draft. The fact that the best ruck in the draft goes at pick 47 says something about rucks across the competition. It seems obvious that there is a greater supply of rucks with diminishing demand. Most rucks last year went in the rookie draft. If a ruck is not exceptional, they will need to be forward hybrids. I am not sure Lycett is either of those to any great deal. Perhaps he will become one or the other.

Unless Ryder retires or PA start playing two rucks (which seems nonsensical given they have Dixon and Westhoff), Lycett will be playing a second string role.


No, I think what this says is that it takes five to six years of development for most rucks - maybe with injuries to overcome during this time - at which time they will become free agents; so why bother drafting them? Why not just do what Port Adelaide are attempting to do with Lycett (though I'm not convinced he is gone) and pick them up as free agents or disgruntled players when required. Certainly not worth a high draft pick in most cases, they would have to be exceptional such as NN.

Lycett probably would count as exceptional when drafted so it's a pity he was injured pron when key opportunities came his way. Now he's finally proving the worth of all that development he is a risk of leaving, doh! Oh well he can at least help us win a premiership this year!


You make some good points, but the fact is that less rucks play these days. Most teams go with one ruck and another player to pinch hit. Westhoff at PA to Grigg at Richmond. The fact that a club can play a 190cm second ruck and win the flag is significant. Adelaide (the GF opponent) play one ruck and a key forward to pinch hit. In the past clubs would play two specialist rucks and one would go forward for a rest.

It's a testing time for ruckman at the moment and it's interesting that two rucks made the AA team despite very few clubs playing two. On the flipside, we are now seeing KPD and KPFs pushing beyond 200cm. Gold Coast has Thompson at 200cm and Peter Wright at 203cm in their key forward and defensive posts and that's one example. I suppose the lifeline for rucks is to adapt to key positions.


Limit on rotations are also playing a part in all of this too. No longer can you keep the ruckman on the pine until the #1 ruck comes off (like we did in 2006 grand final where Seaby played a massive 26% of the game...)
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Streaker on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:29 am

WCE Booka 89 wrote: Limit on rotations are also playing a part in all of this too. No longer can you keep the ruckman on the pine until the #1 ruck comes off (like we did in 2006 grand final where Seaby played a massive 26% of the game...)


With that in mind I can't see how Roughead is going to help us all that much next year. He can't play a full game out in the ruck, which means we have to stick to the 2 ruck policy. He's not a great forward, meaning we can't just plonk him up forward when he needs a rest.

Averaging
12 disposals
12 hitouts
0.5 goals per game

over the 12 games he's played this year.

Will also cost us our compensation pick we get for Lycett (if he goes). Not liking him as an option.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Streaker on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:39 am

Pinion King wrote:
Fat Side wrote:Lobb would have to be the priority. He is a capable ruck and is an excellent marking option up forward. He is young with plenty of upside. Zac Smith is too big and slow when we need a mobile ruckman.

He is still in contract. GWS will drain us of all our picks before they do a deal.

Plus he also needs to want to come here.


GWS have huge salary cap issues. They've been letting very good players go for peanuts in the last few years.

Devon Smith and pick 24 to Essendon for pick 11
Nathan Wilson and Pick 71 to Fremantle for pick 57 and 2018 2nd round.
Matthew Kennedy for Carltons pick 28
Jack Steele for St Kilda 2017 2nd round pick
Paul Ahern for Norths pick 69
Will Hoskin Elliot for Collingwoods 2017 2nd round pick
Rhys Palmer for Carltons pick 135 ( hahahaha)

Doubtful they'd let Lobb go but it'd be worth a shot.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:57 am

No doubt FS that there are less rucks playing with most teams opting for only one, with the Eagles being the standout exception. However I think this year has shown a return to the value of quality modern rucks - Cox types, great tap and mobile - to a team with great examples around the league; Grundy, Gawn, Ryder, Naitanui (when fit) all genuine match winners plus a number of rucks on the rise to that status (Lobb, Sinclair, Bellchambers) or on the decline (Goldstein, Kreuzer). Rucks remain key planks to a team if they can get hold of a good one. If they can't then they will make do as they always have.

Which reminds me that even we ourselves have made do in the past i.e. 1992* and 1994**
* 1992 - Paul Harding 193cm (rucks have certainly got bigger) was a great versatile big man and the ruck we had so the ruck we used.
** 1994 - Yes I know Ball 201cm became a monster of a ruck but at that time he was still a young 18 game player and second fiddle to Hynes who at 190cm was definitely just a versatile big man who rucked.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Streaker on Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:05 pm

Lycett was asked straight up if he was leaving at the end of the year in an interview last night which was aired after the WAFL game today. His answer was that he hasn't signed with Port Adelaide and that he was still in the process of making up his mind. He said that as strange as it may sound he won't make a decision until after the season. He said that people saying he was gone was just outside noise.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby MrWoollie on Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:26 am

Can anyone confirm if there are still limits on the minimum percentage of TPP that must be payed out?

I know that the TPP was $12.45 Mill in 2017, increased by ~1% in 2018; so about $12.5 Mill. There used to be a 90% spend requirement but I don't know if that still exists. If so, any club spending 90% of TPP has about $1.25 Mill unspent.
My thinking is in regards to Norf. Apparently Polec has asked for a move to Norf under a front loaded 5 year $3.5 Mill deal, with year one pay of $1 Mill. Unless Norf has freed up a bunch of cap space they won't have much left over to offer Gaff a six year $8.4 Mill contract.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Fat Side on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:34 am

MrWoollie wrote:Can anyone confirm if there are still limits on the minimum percentage of TPP that must be payed out?

I know that the TPP was $12.45 Mill in 2017, increased by ~1% in 2018; so about $12.5 Mill. There used to be a 90% spend requirement but I don't know if that still exists. If so, any club spending 90% of TPP has about $1.25 Mill unspent.
My thinking is in regards to Norf. Apparently Polec has asked for a move to Norf under a front loaded 5 year $3.5 Mill deal, with year one pay of $1 Mill. Unless Norf has freed up a bunch of cap space they won't have much left over to offer Gaff a six year $8.4 Mill contract.


I thought it was more like 95% required spend. If your calculations are right it could be tight. They have freed up money from Waite's retirement. They have so far delisted a raft of young players and are yet to re-sign several more experienced players. It could be that they're waiting to see what Gaff does before re-signing them. Jed Anderson will want more money. I suspect that Thompson, Jacobs and Sam Wright will be satisfied with a contract similar to previous deals. If Gaff chooses to go, a couple of them may not get re-signed.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby Pinion King on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:25 am

Very interesting:
https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl-free-a ... b88960336z

The free agent did not openly declare his decision when speaking to Mix 94.5 on Friday morning, but this was his reply when asked if he was going to be playing for the Eagles next year:

“Yeah I hope so. It’s still something we’re working through with my management and the club.
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Re: Free Agent Targets 2018

Postby CouchPotato on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:24 am

Pinion King wrote:Very interesting:
https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl-free-a ... b88960336z

The free agent did not openly declare his decision when speaking to Mix 94.5 on Friday morning, but this was his reply when asked if he was going to be playing for the Eagles next year:

“Yeah I hope so. It’s still something we’re working through with my management and the club.


Will be stoked if he stays.

The more I think about it, Gaff is much more important than Lycett. I reckon we're confident we can get a backup ruckman in trade / draft and Lycett isn't worth what he's asking as a middle of the road ruckamn. You Gaff has developed into a quality A-grade mid, and replacing those doesn't happen easily even with draft picks
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