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2018 Draft

The list and its future

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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:51 pm

MrWoollie wrote:I'm a little surprised we didn't give Stack a rookie spot. Basically a free hit at someone who would either turn out an absolute winner or a big personal fail.
Put him under the wing of guys like Jetta and NN and he may have thrived. Does David Wirrpunda still do indigenous stuff for the club? It would have given him the opportunity to prove whether he was serious or not.

We now have a strong indigenous influence in the club. Phil Narkle was the leagues first Indigenous Liaison, we do still work with the Wirrpunda Foundation, Jetta has matured into a leadership role, and its clear that even Simmo takes an active interest.

If you draft a kid in the top ten, and he can't hold it together, you might rightly feel we wasted a pick. But you're talking about someone who would have cost us nothing (pick wise.) Plus being a rookie, would have felt much less pressure, and could hopefully have just concentrated on his footy.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Streaker on Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:08 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:Picking up Edwards, another KPF, seems to suggest we're going to persist with the crap of trying to turn surplus forwards into defenders and mids. FMD

At least the Beagles will have plenty of rucks.


Edwards plays both ends.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby thorne89 on Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:18 am

Streaker wrote:Valente to the Dockers. Will that come back to bite us like Banfield?

Like Banfield? The role player in a bottom 5 side?

Yes. We ought to be very jealous of Fremantle’s coup there.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby thorne89 on Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:21 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:His background issues are well known, but he has worked hard to put those things behind him and concentrate on his dream.
And yet nobody was prepared to give him a go?

The AFL should collectively hang its head in shame.

What's the fucking point in celebrating Indigenous Round, without acknowledging the huge difficulties these kids have to overcome?
The Indigenous Next Gen Academies were supposed to help address that, but he presumably did not qualify.

So sick of politicians and bureaucrats who love to say all the right words, but actually do fuck all to sort out the mess we have made.
Kids like Stack grow up knowing nothing but alcoholism, abuse, destitution, and violence. We need to break that cycle.

No. This is a business, not a charity, and we do plenty already.

You’re making a lot of assumptions as well. Maybe he just isn’t as good as you think? Teams shouldn’t lower their standards because of some ridiculous notion of affirmative action being beneficial.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby thorne89 on Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:24 am

Excellent work by the team to use the live trades to our advantage.

Xavier is dual sided and hits it hard. Tick.

Foley will provide size and outside run while able to hit the scoreboard. Tick.

Williams has as much potential as anybody in the draft. Tick.

Cameron was always going to happen. Tick.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Fat Side on Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:16 am

Pinion King wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:Did we pass? I thought those picks would have gone towards making the ~250 points we needed for Cameron?


They were on the screen at pick 68, then when it was our turn, they dropped off.

I think they were used for our points for Cameron.


Cameron was gone at 39. The picks were on the board at 68
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby MelbourneBased on Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:12 am

Looking at the highlight reel of the four picks. The one that impress me the most was Bailey Williams, especially the hand balling in traffic and the follow up and staying in the plays. His kicking style was different thou but I guess he has to bring it down from a height.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:38 am

MelbourneBased wrote:Looking at the highlight reel of the four picks. The one that impress me the most was Bailey Williams, especially the hand balling in traffic and the follow up and staying in the plays. His kicking style was different thou but I guess he has to bring it down from a height.


Was very impressive his highlights. But yeah you don't see too many ruckmen around with a fluent kicking style, whilst I'm sure height has something to do with it, I think the length of the legs might also play a part (obviously the longer the legs, the higher up the ball will be, but also would impact their stride length and kicking action)
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby MelbourneBased on Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:07 am

WCE Booka 89 wrote:
MelbourneBased wrote:Looking at the highlight reel of the four picks. The one that impress me the most was Bailey Williams, especially the hand balling in traffic and the follow up and staying in the plays. His kicking style was different thou but I guess he has to bring it down from a height.


Was very impressive his highlights. But yeah you don't see too many ruckmen around with a fluent kicking style, whilst I'm sure height has something to do with it, I think the length of the legs might also play a part (obviously the longer the legs, the higher up the ball will be, but also would impact their stride length and kicking action)


I am happy to stand corrected. I should have said it was when he was on the run or quick releases after a mark where it looks a bit more awkward. He seems like it gets it all right when he has time for a set shot.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Pinion King on Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:12 am

WCE Booka 89 wrote:
MelbourneBased wrote:Looking at the highlight reel of the four picks. The one that impress me the most was Bailey Williams, especially the hand balling in traffic and the follow up and staying in the plays. His kicking style was different thou but I guess he has to bring it down from a height.


Was very impressive his highlights. But yeah you don't see too many ruckmen around with a fluent kicking style, whilst I'm sure height has something to do with it, I think the length of the legs might also play a part (obviously the longer the legs, the higher up the ball will be, but also would impact their stride length and kicking action)

The run down the wing tapping the ball was Nic Nat like.

Nic called him after he was drafted and had a chat.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Streaker on Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:50 pm

http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/2 ... lculations

Player Focus

Making his impact felt for Dandenong in their convincing win over Bendigo, Bailey Williams was the focal point up forward, consolidating his draft stocks as a likely late first or second round choice. The 198cm, 95kg, key position prospect posted 15 disposals, 11 marks (four contested), 12 hitouts, four inside 50s, one goal and four behinds.

What makes Williams so threatening is his aerial attack on the ball. He reads the drop well and times his run and jumps cleverly. Each time he elevated for marks on the weekend nobody could defend him. His height, reach, elevation and strength to absorb contact in the air made defending Williams an impossible task, even when double teamed in marking contests. His leading patterns are a further strength, something he does to perfection.

While Williams has developed into a threatening key forward, he was arguably the best ruckman in the TAC Cup in 2017, often elevating so high at ruck contests he would get his torso above the opposition ruckman's head for clear hitouts.

Williams possesses an intriguing athletic profile as a tall, strong and ultra-athletic prospect who plays a style of game baring similarities to Paddy Ryder.

While Williams impacts the play each time he goes near the ball, he is still raw and his game lacks completeness. What holds Williams back from being viewed as one of this year's elite prospects is his inconsistent marking. He often drops chest marks or finds the ball bounces off his hands overhead where he needs a second or third attempt to take control of the ball.

At ground level, Williams lacks the clean hands to pick the ball up off the deck consistently. His conversion in front of goal has also let him down, kicking 12 goals and 16 behinds so far this TAC Cup season. It was telling against Bendigo with his only goal coming from a snap while all four behinds came from set shot misses.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby MrWoollie on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:04 pm

One thing that is not very clear at the moment is what points deficit does every club have hanging over their collective heads?

I was looking at the ESPN assessment and they graded everyone, but the only points discussion came in the statement 'The positive for Collingwood is no points deficit.'
Similary The Age stated 'Collingwood managed to snare both Quaynor and Will Kelly without going into points deficit and compromising their 2019 draft further.'

Is Eddiewood the only club not in deficit? I wouldn't mind seeing a full list of outstanding points.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:00 pm

And what exactly is the effect of a deficit? How long are clubs are allowed to carry it?
Are you still allowed to trade away those picks?

Thanks to those cock-sucking vermin in Brisbane we have to repay our debt in the 2nd round next year, where we will have two picks. So what happens if we trade them away for another 1st rounder? Can we just roll the debt over?

39, that's THIRTY NINE, of next years picks have already been traded. Its getting beyond a joke.
And a lot of it is just to allow clubs to further rort the academies and points system.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby MrWoollie on Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:47 pm

So Brisbane bid in the second round with pick 39. Value 446. We matched but get a discount (20%?) meaning 357 points, about pick 44 1/2. Not really a great saving, but something.

If my thinking is correct...
We had later picks but by the time they came around they were after pick 73 so were of no points value. Therefore we carry over the whole thing.
But as CD says, we have to pay it back in the 2019 second round. Barring F/S and Academy and priority slides, round 2 should contain picks 19-36.
Lets say we finish 5th and get a start pick of 32. We also get the Swans second rounder that will hopefully come before that. If they finish 8th will be 29.
So we start with picks 29 and 32 in R2. Allowing for 5 pick slides (that's what happened this year pre pick 38) our picks become 34 and 37. Which we will have to use to pay for a discounted pick 39.

So we either pay more than the first bid (are we allowed to go into points credit?) or play pick swapsie to go as low as possible in round 2.

What a [Greg Williams] of a system.

Edit -

In addition, if I summarise correctly, for 2019 we currently have 1 x R1 pick (ours), 2 x R2 picks (ours + Sydney), no third round picks (given to Sydney), no 4th round picks (we swapped R4 picks with St Kilda but then gave that to GCS at the draft) and 1 x R5 pick (ours).
If we have to pay R2 points for Cameron it could be a quiet draft for us with a R1, R2 and R5 pick.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am

The discount is 197 points.
It's 20% in the first round, then fixed.

If we are forced to pay over (eg using our 2nd round pick) then we get given another pick equal to the surplus points.
That's why clubs with a lot of good academy players like to trade for a bunch of low value picks, as it give them more flexibility.

So realistically, and depending on who might be an academy pick next season, we want to trade away those picks. Either for players, or trade for another 1st rounder, or trade our pick backwards for an increase in points.

What's not very clear is when the points value will be determined?
I don't know. Is it before the draft starts, or at the start of the second round, or at the equivalent pick?

What makes it really hard to keep track of is that the picks used to match a bid remain in place but are passes. So the common depiction of the draft, including as shown by the AFL, is incorrect.
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