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2018 Draft

The list and its future

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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Pinion King on Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:58 pm

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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Fat Side on Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:23 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:The discount is 197 points.
It's 20% in the first round, then fixed.

If we are forced to pay over (eg using our 2nd round pick) then we get given another pick equal to the surplus points.
That's why clubs with a lot of good academy players like to trade for a bunch of low value picks, as it give them more flexibility.

So realistically, and depending on who might be an academy pick next season, we want to trade away those picks. Either for players, or trade for another 1st rounder, or trade our pick backwards for an increase in points.

What's not very clear is when the points value will be determined?
I don't know. Is it before the draft starts, or at the start of the second round, or at the equivalent pick?

What makes it really hard to keep track of is that the picks used to match a bid remain in place but are passes. So the common depiction of the draft, including as shown by the AFL, is incorrect.


It must be that, when matching an bid for your academy/FS player, that your next draft pick gets affected. That would explain Sydney doing the deal with the WCE to 'park up' their second round pick before matching a bid for Blakey, and then doing a reverse trade after matching the bid to get back into the second round. They clearly did not want to see their second rounder adversely affected by matching the bid.

When we matched the bid for Cameron, we lost our next pick which was around the early 50s.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Fat Side on Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:30 pm

After trading our original pick 19 (later 23) to GC for picks 27 and 32 (later 28 and 35) means our FA compensation for Lycett were picks 23 and 28.

You have to be happy with that.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby CouchPotato on Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:56 pm

Fat Side wrote:After trading our original pick 19 (later 23) to GC for picks 27 and 32 (later 28 and 35) means our FA compensation for Lycett were picks 23 and 28.

You have to be happy with that.


yea - a good way to think about it

If you had said to me that we'd end up with 3 picks in the top 40 of that draft I would have taken it every day of the week. Just hope they turn out to be gems!
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:56 pm

Fat Side wrote:It must be that, when matching an bid for your academy/FS player, that your next draft pick gets affected.
Not sure, you might be right.
Originally, I know it was simply points, and you could bundle up any old pile of crap to make up the points. In the first draft this lead to clubs trading backwards, for a bunch of rubbish picks that actually increase their points value. There was then a bit of noise from the AFL about putting a stop to it, but as Q pointed out at the time, they can't just ban "trading backwards" because one club is always going backwards in any pick swap. Maybe they introduced a rule requiring teams to, as you say, put up their next available pick.
Much as I think the whole system needs to go out the window, if they keep it, they should re-jig the points so that anything past the 3rd round is worthless (say anything after pick 60) and players can only be bid on in the 1st or 2nd round.
Stop all this trading for rubbish picks
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:55 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:
MrWoollie wrote:I'm a little surprised we didn't give Stack a rookie spot. Basically a free hit at someone who would either turn out an absolute winner or a big personal fail.
Put him under the wing of guys like Jetta and NN and he may have thrived. Does David Wirrpunda still do indigenous stuff for the club? It would have given him the opportunity to prove whether he was serious or not.

We now have a strong indigenous influence in the club. Phil Narkle was the leagues first Indigenous Liaison, we do still work with the Wirrpunda Foundation, Jetta has matured into a leadership role, and its clear that even Simmo takes an active interest.

If you draft a kid in the top ten, and he can't hold it together, you might rightly feel we wasted a pick. But you're talking about someone who would have cost us nothing (pick wise.) Plus being a rookie, would have felt much less pressure, and could hopefully have just concentrated on his footy.
I don't condone bad behaviour, especially some types, but people need to understand just how far back these kids are starting. Footy is about the only thing they get help with, and every one who makes it out sets a positive example.
He's set to join the Tigers, under the new pre-season provisions.

I don't understand why they have smashed the PSD and RD onto the end of the ND.

But then created this new provision which is apparently a free for all, any club can sign anybody.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Streaker on Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:43 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:
MrWoollie wrote:I'm a little surprised we didn't give Stack a rookie spot. Basically a free hit at someone who would either turn out an absolute winner or a big personal fail.
Put him under the wing of guys like Jetta and NN and he may have thrived. Does David Wirrpunda still do indigenous stuff for the club? It would have given him the opportunity to prove whether he was serious or not.

We now have a strong indigenous influence in the club. Phil Narkle was the leagues first Indigenous Liaison, we do still work with the Wirrpunda Foundation, Jetta has matured into a leadership role, and its clear that even Simmo takes an active interest.

If you draft a kid in the top ten, and he can't hold it together, you might rightly feel we wasted a pick. But you're talking about someone who would have cost us nothing (pick wise.) Plus being a rookie, would have felt much less pressure, and could hopefully have just concentrated on his footy.
I don't condone bad behaviour, especially some types, but people need to understand just how far back these kids are starting. Footy is about the only thing they get help with, and every one who makes it out sets a positive example.
He's set to join the Tigers, under the new pre-season provisions.

I don't understand why they have smashed the PSD and RD onto the end of the ND.

But then created this new provision which is apparently a free for all, any club can sign anybody.


I thought the idea of this new pre-season supplemental selection was to allow players who were out of the game for a year to be able to get back on a list, not open slather if you have a space available? And how does a guy from Halls Creek (Mosquito) end up being an NGA for Essendon?
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:52 pm

Streaker wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:I don't understand why they have smashed the PSD and RD onto the end of the ND.

But then created this new provision which is apparently a free for all, any club can sign anybody.


I thought the idea of this new pre-season supplemental selection was to allow players who were out of the game for a year to be able to get back on a list, not open slather if you have a space available? And how does a guy from Halls Creek (Mosquito) end up being an NGA for Essendon?

It's anyone who goes undrafted.
(OR if they have been previously listed but out for a year, they don't need to nominate for the draft.)

So its basically like the RD & PSD used to be, except its "first in" for anyone with space on their list.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:40 am

Crazy Dazz wrote: He's set to join the Tigers, under the new pre-season provisions.

I don't understand why they have smashed the PSD and RD onto the end of the ND.

But then created this new provision which is apparently a free for all, any club can sign anybody.


THe afl have cocked up with the draft now. what was pretty simple and good is now some made up shit to make it "exciting", when it really just disengages us fans.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby domo_the_eagle on Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:43 am

Streaker wrote:I thought the idea of this new pre-season supplemental selection was to allow players who were out of the game for a year to be able to get back on a list, not open slather if you have a space available? And how does a guy from Halls Creek (Mosquito) end up being an NGA for Essendon?


He was an NGA for hawthorn but they didnt think he was worth forking out the picks to get him where essendon selected him.

We all thought cameron was going to be picked around 50-60ish, and we ended up going into a points deficit to get him at 39? dunno we could end up with another weedon, or another ryan/rioli type.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:40 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:
Streaker wrote: And how does a guy from Halls Creek (Mosquito) end up being an NGA for Essendon?
He was an NGA for hawthorn but they didnt think he was worth forking out the picks to get him where essendon selected him.

But to answer the question, he grew up in Hells Crack, but moved to Victoria for high school, and has been playing for Gippsland.

Which unfortunately just opens up another rort, if Prictorian teams are to just kidnap talent from across the country, stash them in their zone for a couple of years and add them to their academies.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:51 pm

domo_the_eagle wrote:We all thought cameron was going to be picked around 50-60ish, and we ended up going into a points deficit to get him at 39? dunno we could end up with another weedon, or another ryan/rioli type.

I hope Brisvegas have a heap of Academy players next year, and we get to return the favour.
Or even better, Charlie decides he wants to move here and play with his brother.

After discount, pick 39 was equivalent to pick 52, and it really only cost us the 4th round pick we got from the Saints, plus maybe the same again in debt.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:18 pm

Fat Side wrote:It must be that, when matching an bid for your academy/FS player, that your next draft pick gets affected. That would explain Sydney doing the deal with the WCE to 'park up' their second round pick before matching a bid for Blakey, and then doing a reverse trade after matching the bid to get back into the second round. They clearly did not want to see their second rounder adversely affected by matching the bid.

And predictably, the AFL is looking at blocking such moves.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-27/sydneys-crafty-draft-move-may-be-outlawed
So in typical AFL fashion, we'll have more knee-jerk complications, to fix a system that wasn't broken till they started fucking with it.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Clarke Markx Goalz on Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:08 pm

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-29/how-2018s-biggest-draft-shock-almost-didnt-happen

Hill's size and lack of running strength was a factor against him, and the Eagles were prioritising running midfielders at the draft.

But there was more to the Giants' play for 'Bobby'. They were worried the Crows would use pick 24 to bid for Academy ruckman Kieren Briggs, so wanted to eliminate that possibility.

That's why they perhaps gave up overs to move four spots up the order (they traded pick 28 and a future second-round pick to the Crows for pick 24 and a future fifth-round pick) but it allowed them to select Hill, and then comfortably match a Briggs bid in the 30s.


It was highly predicted that Hill would stay in the West. A lot of people on here didn't rate him. GWS ended up swapping a second round pick from next year for him and that Briggs Bid, was from the Eagles themselves.
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Re: 2018 Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:52 pm

As my (hopefully) final word on this draft, before moving on and concentrating on the future:
I am, overall, less than impressed with our performance.

I feel that we should have been looking to trade up, not backwards in this draft.
Last years' trade of gaining a bunch of picks by trading our first round pick for GC's 2nd, proved to be a masterstroke, but we need to be careful that we're not concentrating too much on the trading game, and not enough on the actual players. There were some bloody good players who went in the 1st round, and I would have preferred to amongst those.

If GC don't succeed in turning him into a cokehead, I think we will regret trading away McLennan (or even potentially Hill.)

Given where we were at , and who was available I don't mind O'Neill. He'll take a while to develop, but i think was a good gamble.

Foley, sorry just leaves me cold. He wasn't any good last year, and as an over-aged player he barely made the grade, still playing Colts.
For all his downsides, I don't understand why we didn't pounce on Valente at that pick.
Or if we wanted a local, I think England is a better prospect.

I'm not sure about the decision to take Williams. I assume we figured that it was effectively going to be our last pick besides Cameron.
Last thing we needed was another KPF prospect, so we'd better hope he grows an inch or two and becomes a genuine ruckman. But then why have we already committed to Brooksby and McInnes?
I would have preferred we pick up English, take a punt on Koschitzke's hip, or even Bytel's back.

I also would have liked to see us fill our list, and take that last pick.
Somebody like, Grundy, or Tobe Watson.

NB: I have no real issue with Edwards, as a project player anything is possible.

Then we come to the players overlooked. And in terms of places on the list, I'm looking at McInnes, Brooksby, and Josh Smith.
By definition, these are guys we good have had for nothing:

Sydney Stack. So pissed we didn't give Stack a go. Really hope he's able to keep his life on track and thrives at Richmond.
Luke Meadows. If you want a midfielder who's AFL ready, this guy could have been Tim Kelly 2.0
Jye Bolton. I think he's too old to make a comeback, but if we wanted to add mature depth for a B2B push, he was a better option than Smith.
Dillon O'Reilly and Oliver Eastland. If we wanted a speculative project tall to develop, one of these guys could have been worth a shake.

Anyway, I thinks that's about it, onwards and upwards, looking forward to next season.
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