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Tim Kelly - The Whole Two Year Trade Story

The list and its future

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Re: Tim Kelly = Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:07 pm

I'm disappointed we couldn't get him cheaper

We've really paid top dollar, and I don' understand what the rush was?

The critical thing now will be to see if we can trade 52, 64, and that 3rd rounder, to somebody like GWS or Freo, and try to get into the 2nd round. Cos on their own they are worthless in this draft and the next.
If we can get some value for those picks, then the cost comes down form utterly ridiculous to painfully stupendous.

The annoying thing is that yes we got a great player, who will help us for the next few years, but Geelong were the clear winner from he trade and this will help them more in the long term.
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Re: Tim Kelly wants to be an EAGLE - Again

Postby Perrythegreat on Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:59 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:So hand up.

Who would be happy for us to Trade Brander, Ryan, Petruccelle, and a healthy Venables, all for Kelly?

Because that is what is being proposed.

This isn't just "paying over" this is absolutely raping our drafting


We paid a lot, but we wont know whether the deal is any good for at least 3-5 years.

Crazy Daz, you can't pick players from whatever draft suits your argument.

I could put it like this:

We traded Mitch Brown, Ebert, Swift and Notte for Kelly

Given next years draft is seriously compromised, and again, this one looks low-mid level, our first pick next year is likely to be in the 20s. This years pick 14 - could be decent and I will be slightly more annoyed if Robertson was available, but pick 24 and 33 are at best 50/50 hit ratio.

As I said, we've paid highly, but he is highly rated, not just by Geelong, but umpires, coaches and fellow players.

Also, lets not forget this is not Kelly's fault it cost this much. Both last year and this year he did the right thing and said he wanted to go, and nominated us. We should support him 100%.
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Re: Tim Kelly wants to be an EAGLE - Again

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:46 pm

Perrythegreat wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:Who would be happy for us to Trade Brander, Ryan, Petruccelle, and a healthy Venables, all for Kelly?
Crazy Daz, you can't pick players from whatever draft suits your argument.

I deliberately chose recent players that are still relatively unknown.
Brander could be anything, from the next JK, to the next Notte, but at least he has a chance. That was my point.
Let's say that Robertson was available at 14, or whomever. They could be a star, they could be a spud. But anything is better than nothing.

And everything is relative. If we we in GC's position, with 8,000 points in this draft alone, then paying 3,000 for Kelly would be a worthwhile gamble.

Fact is that the "come home" factor is one of the few things we have going for us. But in this case we have failed.
We had the perfect opportunity to play hard ball, and instead (and again) we have caved and paid absolutely top dollar.

Out of drafting and trading, we need to do at least one of those well. Instead we have traded badly, and locked ourselves out of drafting.
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Re: Tim Kelly = Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby Clarke Markx Goalz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:07 pm

Pinion King wrote:Do you think Champion Data will label us the 13th best midfield next year? :lol:

Interesting listening to Vozzo on Trade Radio. Said our focus the past three years was stacking up in kids then this year go after an elite.

Yeah listening to Vozzo made me feel better. He was unconcerned with this draft or the next and so didn't worry about the Cats nefarious plans. If we play along here we get better deals in the long run. As a destination club with good development and scouts, high draft picks aren't as important as for the middling vic club's. They isn't a long list of players they want to delist and Masten had to go for Kelly. So happy enough. It's like Wells asked for a million dollars and Vozzo just handed it over telling him , money is only paper. They re just picks, we got the dude.
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Re: Tim Kelly wants to be an EAGLE - Again

Postby Clarke Markx Goalz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:10 pm

Let's say that Robertson was available at 14, or whomever. They could be a star, they could be a spud. But anything is better than nothing.


Vozzo said, we dont have the pick for Robertson but we'll get him in a few years.
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Re: Tim Kelly = Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:54 pm

Pinion King wrote:Interesting listening to Vozzo on Trade Radio. Said our focus the past three years was stacking up in kids then this year go after an elite.

What a crock of flaming shit
If we'd got him in 2017, THAT would have been the plan.
If we'd got him last year, THAT would have been the plan all along.
If he'd re-signed with Geelong, then he'd make up some bullshit story to cover that as well.

Fact is Vozzo and his crew have FUCKED up, not once, not even Twice, but now THREE times.
I really dislike people like him, never admit their mistakes, just keeping spewing bullshit.
Just imagine if we'd done the smart thing and stuck to the plan in '17? Taken Allen and Kelly with our 1st two picks. Instead we once again got "surprised" that a player nobody else wanted was available and took Brander.
Last year, the Cats were prepared to let Kelly go, for LESS than than we paid this year. And THAT might actually have made sense because we could have had a shot this year.
Now this year, when we actually had some leverage, we've caved on the first day.

Look at the end of the day, the deed has been done, and Kelly will be very good for us.
But lets not pretend that this was some master-stroke of strategy, or that Vozzo is anything more than a bullshit=spewing gobshite.


Clarke Markx Goalz wrote:Yeah listening to Vozzo made me feel better. .
Really?
Listening to him I had the urge to drive down to Lathlain Park and strangle him...

Clarke Markx Goalz wrote:If we play along here we get better deals in the long run. As a destination club with good development and scouts, high draft picks aren't as important as for the middling vic club's.

Being a "destination club" doesn't help in the draft, is of limited benefit when trading (None of Swallow, Coniglio, Martin, Ah Chee, O'Meara, etc, wanted to come home, and Redden is the only interstate player I can recall to request us) and even when it does work, eg with Kelly, it's a double-edged sword if we get butt-raped in the trade.
Ok, so we didn't have a high enough pick to get Robertson, but high picks aren't important?
Having good development and scouts still doesn't polish a turd.They might help you turn 2nd rounders into guns, but oops we traded them away.
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Re: Tim Kelly wants to be an EAGLE - Again

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:02 pm

Clarke Markx Goalz wrote:
Let's say that Robertson was available at 14, or whomever. They could be a star, they could be a spud. But anything is better than nothing.

Vozzo said, we dont have the pick for Robertson but we'll get him in a few years.

Yes, I agree, Vozzo IS the biggest moron to ever represent our club.

So his great plan, rather than draft Robertson for top 10 pick, that might have cost 1,500 points, wait two years and pay 3 times that at the trade table. Brilliant.
So how are we also going to get back Rivers and Elijah?

I think I will become a supplier to the Eagles.
I've just got to identify a commodity that the Eagles can give me cheaply, then in two years time I sell it back to them at three times the price.
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Re: Tim Kelly = Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby Clarke Markx Goalz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:23 pm

Clarke Markx Goalz wrote:If we play along here we get better deals in the long run. As a destination club with good development and scouts, high draft picks aren't as important as for the middling vic club's.

Being a "destination club" doesn't help in the draft, is of limited benefit when trading (None of Swallow, Coniglio, Martin, Ah Chee, O'Meara, etc, wanted to come home, and Redden is the only interstate player I can recall to request us) and even when it does work, eg with Kelly, it's a double-edged sword if we get butt-raped in the trade.
Ok, so we didn't have a high enough pick to get Robertson, but high picks aren't important?
Having good development and scouts still doesn't polish a turd.They might help you turn 2nd rounders into guns, but oops we traded them away.[/quote]

Dude, imagine how angry you would be if you barracked for a saint kilda or a norf. We can't afford those players. If there wasn't a salary cap, no one else would come near a premiership (Collingwood would be able to afford the players but would keep losing). West Coast are one of the two richest clubs in the country. The pies and horks don't bother with low picks, they can get players without them. So can we.

Then again, I do live in Melbourne. Maybe I"m forgetting how sucky Perth can be.
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Re: Tim Kelly = Exploding Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby Clarke Markx Goalz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:25 pm

Front page of TheAge
Cats' plans for Tim Kelly windfall

same company, frontpage of WaToday
'Childhood dream' comes true for Kelly as he heads home to West Coast


They know their audience.
Geelong recruiting manager Stephen Wells said the Kelly trade – the only deal over the past two decades to exceed two first-round draft choices – gave the Cats ‘‘a lot of options for us, either trading up (in the draft) or into the future’’
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Re: Tim Kelly = Exploding Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby CouchPotato on Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:13 pm

Welcome Tim!

I trust the club knows what it’s doing, but it does feel like we’ve paid slightly overs for him.

What it does do is remove our one remaining weakness - midfield - from our list. We now just need to fix the defensive structures and keep Kennedy grinding away and we are a much better team.

I’m happy to pay the price we’ve paid to genuinely challenge for the next couple of years - Gaff, NN and Shep deserve that.
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Re: Tim Kelly = Exploding Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby Deroadster on Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:58 pm

Seriously who takes the wrap for letting Kelly, Pickett, stack slip through the last few drafts and now we pay this price to get one back. Vozzo and his recruiting mob are absolute dogs for what we have let happen here. We could of offered less and got pick 3 or 4 from demons or crows and the totally fucked the cats over... this sucks
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Re: Tim Kelly = Exploding Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:09 pm

Deroadster wrote:Seriously who takes the wrap for letting Kelly, Pickett, stack slip through the last few drafts and now we pay this price to get one back. Vozzo and his recruiting mob are absolute dogs for what we have let happen here. We could of offered less and got pick 3 or 4 from demons or crows and the totally fucked the cats over... this sucks


Don't forget Sam Powell-Pepper. However, with him and Kelly that's the way the draft order works; you just can't select everyone you want. We drafted gold in last year’s draft before Kelly and unfortunately Geelong surprised everyone by picking up Kelly two picks before us, however that left us free to pick up flying Ryan: premiership player and that mark! So Vozzo and his recruiting mob probably deserve credit for a premiership and hopefully more in years to come built on that draft.

Regarding Stack and Pickett, they would have been nice but I reckon the club probably decided we were still bedding down Ryan and didn't want the potential distractions - that may or may not have been justified. Remember Ryan was in a bit of trouble at one-point last year; seems like a long time ago now! Maybe those fears would have been unfounded especially for Pickett but Stack himself has said not getting drafted at all was the kick up the arse he needed to realise what becoming an AFL player meant; great to see him get an opportunity at the Tigers and look like he belongs in all respects.
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Re: Tim Kelly - The Whole Two Year Trade Story

Postby Clarke Markx Goalz on Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:16 pm

Is Kelly an expensive player, as in, is he coming to the eagles for less than he would have done at the cats or freo? The wage quoted by the media is less than what st kilda is offering Hill. There is more to list management than just picks. They may have rushed through the trade to satisfy Kelly and family, who agreed to less.
If it had gone to draft, there’s no way Gold Coast would have missed him, so pick 3 mightn’t be enough.
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Re: Tim Kelly = Exploding Flaming Sideways Pineapple

Postby Pinion King on Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:38 pm

Fair Bump Play On wrote:
Deroadster wrote:Seriously who takes the wrap for letting Kelly, Pickett, stack slip through the last few drafts and now we pay this price to get one back. Vozzo and his recruiting mob are absolute dogs for what we have let happen here. We could of offered less and got pick 3 or 4 from demons or crows and the totally fucked the cats over... this sucks


Don't forget Sam Powell-Pepper. However, with him and Kelly that's the way the draft order works; you just can't select everyone you want. We drafted gold in last year’s draft before Kelly and unfortunately Geelong surprised everyone by picking up Kelly two picks before us, however that left us free to pick up flying Ryan: premiership player and that mark! So Vozzo and his recruiting mob probably deserve credit for a premiership and hopefully more in years to come built on that draft.

Regarding Stack and Pickett, they would have been nice but I reckon the club probably decided we were still bedding down Ryan and didn't want the potential distractions - that may or may not have been justified. Remember Ryan was in a bit of trouble at one-point last year; seems like a long time ago now! Maybe those fears would have been unfounded especially for Pickett but Stack himself has said not getting drafted at all was the kick up the arse he needed to realise what becoming an AFL player meant; great to see him get an opportunity at the Tigers and look like he belongs in all respects.

Yet it works the other way. Darling was a top 10 pick but everyone passed on him because of his "school camp". How did Fyfe slip past us?

We weren't the only ones who didn't pick up Stack, PP or Pickett.

It's just a matter of luck.
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Re: Tim Kelly - The Whole Two Year Trade Story

Postby Perrythegreat on Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:46 pm

Just don’t get some comments on here.

Kelly is a genuine A-grade midfielder that we have snaffled up in the middle of our premiership window. We have given up some draft picks, but I reckon the gamble is worth it. Our drafting record would have to be top3 or 4 over the last 3-5 years. We’ve got some great talent at the back end of the draft before.

Saying Vozzo missed this player or that player. What about the other 16 clubs that missed them? And as much as I wanted us to get Stack, he had some terrible references and didn’t interview well. I’ve also heard some rumours of what he has done whilst being in Hardwick’s house (where he is/was living this year). He played well, but it’s one year in. Same with Pickett. Honestly hope they have long, great careers and it all works out, but some players are risky. Same with Dusty - big gamble, but big payout.

Some recruiters would be likely telling their football departments “I told you so” on Rioli at the moment as well. We’ve taken a few risks of late, and they’ve paid off. I saw Petrucelle as a risk, but early returns are good.

I think we’ve got the balance about right.

I’m pumped to see Tim Kelly in an Eagles jumper. Hope he has a good 5-7 seasons with us.
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