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Making a Mess of the Draft

The list and its future

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Making a Mess of the Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:14 pm

West Coast warns against overcomplicating draft
https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl-draft/afl-draft-2018-eagles-turn-to-ben-simmons-amid-concerns-over-draft-ng-b881031374z
With live trading and academy player bid matching now features of the annual player ballot, the draft picks clubs eventually use now bear little resemblance to the picks they enter the draft with.

O’Brien said supporters could be put off if they didn’t understand the system.

“We need to be wary of that. I’m not sure, having been inside there, how it was perceived publicly,” he said. “But there was a fair bit going on for sure and I think potentially it will only increase.

“But there is a point that we’ve got to be careful of where we keep the fans interested and don’t drive them away.”O’Brien urged the AFL to resist following the lead of the NBA and NFL, who allow players to be on-traded once they had already had their names called out by a club.
He said 18-year-old footballers were not emotionally mature enough to deal with the prospect of being juggled between teams from different States on draft night.


Whilst I agree with the overall sentiment, I think on-trading would be a great thing.
Imagine we've got our eye on a local talent and everyone expects him to be available with our pick, he and his family are stoked etc. But another team also legitimately likes him and takes him ahead of us.
We could them offer them our pick, plus a sweetener to balance out the deal.
They might not be interested, they might try to screw us, but at least we'd have the option.

But something else I would like to see, is all the bidding done before the draft. Then remove those players from the equation, and going into the draft knowing exactly what the picks are.
I can tell you from monitoring social media, that a lot of fans are really confused.
Last edited by Crazy Dazz on Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Americanisation" of the Draft

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:03 pm

that used to be the system (bidding before the draft)

Also the academy and F/S ystems are completely unique to AFL, most certainly not an american thing (well at least as far as NFL goes, can't speak of NBA)

I really think academies just need to piss off. It is simply compromising one of only 2 equalisation measures in the game. How can you keep things equal if say the best team in the league gets first access at a player purely because that player falls into their "zone".

But also the bidding system just seems so out of whack. As mrwoolie has pointed out in the draft thread, there is no real list of what clubs owe, so that makes it harder for fans to follow because it just doesn't seem to balance. Whilst it will make hardcore fans pay more attention, it will make the more middle of the road fan just ignore the AFL until pre-season rolls around and they see 4 or 5 new guys.

As far as on-trading goes, meh. I'd rather see they open up the ability of club to trade players without permission to help balance out free-agency. Maybe even open up in-season trading too. Get something before a player leaves for greener pastures. Might get rid of this whole "yeah I'm just waiting til the end of the year to decide" stuff. Only problem is you would then also have to be able to cut and sign players inside the season too...
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Re: "Americanisation" of the Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:44 pm

WCE Booka 89 wrote:that used to be the system (bidding before the draft)

Also the academy and F/S ystems are completely unique to AFL, most certainly not an american thing (well at least as far as NFL goes, can't speak of NBA)

I really think academies just need to piss off. It is simply compromising one of only 2 equalisation measures in the game. How can you keep things equal if say the best team in the league gets first access at a player purely because that player falls into their "zone".

But also the bidding system just seems so out of whack. As mrwoolie has pointed out in the draft thread, there is no real list of what clubs owe, so that makes it harder for fans to follow because it just doesn't seem to balance. Whilst it will make hardcore fans pay more attention, it will make the more middle of the road fan just ignore the AFL until pre-season rolls around and they see 4 or 5 new guys.

As far as on-trading goes, meh. I'd rather see they open up the ability of club to trade players without permission to help balance out free-agency. Maybe even open up in-season trading too. Get something before a player leaves for greener pastures. Might get rid of this whole "yeah I'm just waiting til the end of the year to decide" stuff. Only problem is you would then also have to be able to cut and sign players inside the season too...

I agree re the academies. The AFL allowed clubs to get unfair advantage with some F/S selections, then introduced regional academies to help the expansion teams which they then rorted, so invented these other imaginary academies to try to balance that.
Fuck em all off.
Keep F/S, but go back to the previous bidding system. Have the bidding before trade period, with the proviso, that if you're unlucky enough to have two players bid on in the same round, you have to give up a future pick. (Reality is that restricted to F/S that would be as rare as hens teeth) Get rid of this whole points shit and shenanigans.

And yes, they're trying to make it more interesting to keep fans engaged, but the only ones who understand it are the diehards who were paying attention anyway. The casual fans trying to follow it on facebook are confused. Asking why we passed on picks, etc.
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Re: "Americanisation" of the Draft

Postby Fat Side on Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:09 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:
WCE Booka 89 wrote:that used to be the system (bidding before the draft)

Also the academy and F/S ystems are completely unique to AFL, most certainly not an american thing (well at least as far as NFL goes, can't speak of NBA)

I really think academies just need to piss off. It is simply compromising one of only 2 equalisation measures in the game. How can you keep things equal if say the best team in the league gets first access at a player purely because that player falls into their "zone".

But also the bidding system just seems so out of whack. As mrwoolie has pointed out in the draft thread, there is no real list of what clubs owe, so that makes it harder for fans to follow because it just doesn't seem to balance. Whilst it will make hardcore fans pay more attention, it will make the more middle of the road fan just ignore the AFL until pre-season rolls around and they see 4 or 5 new guys.

As far as on-trading goes, meh. I'd rather see they open up the ability of club to trade players without permission to help balance out free-agency. Maybe even open up in-season trading too. Get something before a player leaves for greener pastures. Might get rid of this whole "yeah I'm just waiting til the end of the year to decide" stuff. Only problem is you would then also have to be able to cut and sign players inside the season too...

I agree re the academies. The AFL allowed clubs to get unfair advantage with some F/S selections, then introduced regional academies to help the expansion teams which they then rorted, so invented these other imaginary academies to try to balance that.
Fuck em all off.
Keep F/S, but go back to the previous bidding system. Have the bidding before trade period, with the proviso, that if you're unlucky enough to have two players bid on in the same round, you have to give up a future pick. (Reality is that restricted to F/S that would be as rare as hens teeth) Get rid of this whole points shit and shenanigans.

And yes, they're trying to make it more interesting to keep fans engaged, but the only ones who understand it are the diehards who were paying attention anyway. The casual fans trying to follow it on facebook are confused. Asking why we passed on picks, etc.


The Foxtel coverage could have better explained the entire system. So, when Collingwood matches a bid for Quaynor, it should be clear what they're giving up. Their earliest pick was in the 40s, but managed to get Quayner at 13 and Kelly at 29. I am confused when their late picks (after 40) pay for a player at 13 and 29.

Similarly NM did the same with Thomas at 8 when they had traded their early picks away to get Polec, Pittard and Tyson. They only received picks from Clarke and Pruess. I am confused as to how they can match pick 8 and still retain picks 46 before matching a bid at 49 (Scott). They must be taking a huge deficit into 2019?
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Re: "Americanisation" of the Draft

Postby Voice of Reason on Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:06 am

i watched a lot of the draft and found it fascinating, but I don't understand any of it really!!!!!!

The Eagles are smart, took advice and will have done well, so I am relaxed about the outcome.
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Re: "Americanisation" of the Draft

Postby domo_the_eagle on Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:40 pm

I haven't paid much attention this year to the draft. spreading it over 2 days is overkill - kind of makes you lose interest.

Live trading makes it interesting i guess. Sydney certainly did well to find a loophole in the F/S bidding system by using live trading. Apparently the AFL cleared it, but i reckon they will tinker with the rules (yet again - as they like making shit up on the go) to close this loophole.
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Re: "Americanisation" of the Draft

Postby Crazy Dazz on Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:58 pm

Fat Side wrote:The Foxtel coverage could have better explained the entire system. So, when Collingwood matches a bid for Quaynor, it should be clear what they're giving up. Their earliest pick was in the 40s, but managed to get Quayner at 13 and Kelly at 29. I am confused when their late picks (after 40) pay for a player at 13 and 29.

Similarly NM did the same with Thomas at 8 when they had traded their early picks away to get Polec, Pittard and Tyson. They only received picks from Clarke and Pruess. I am confused as to how they can match pick 8 and still retain picks 46 before matching a bid at 49 (Scott). They must be taking a huge deficit into 2019?

The whole system is a crock.
The whole point was meant to be that if you had a F/S (or academy) player who was worth say a 1st round pick, then you paid something close to fair value.
Instead clubs trade those picks away for existing players, then still get their chosen player in the draft.

But to answer your question, Norths entered the draft with a big bundle of late picks: 42, 47, 48, 49, 55, & 58. Those first 4 were worth 1,300 points (pre draft) and were used to pay for Thomas.
They then traded away their remaining picks (for 2019 picks). They traded for pick 46 to get Tailor, and then got Scott for nothing but debt. (although to be fair that debt would only be about 90 points after discount.)

The first problem is that all of this goes against the AFL's goal of making the Draft a big media/fan event. Even the AFL's own media couldn't keep track, and the average fan has no clue.
It's also allowing clubs to rort the bidding system.
Its also creating some really bad trades of future picks.

And even though these new academies are allowing clubs to rort the system, they still don't match the power of the NSW academies.
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Re: "Americanisation" of the Draft

Postby Mr Q on Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:32 pm

I wish the draft would just go back to being a bunch of guys making selections in a room, then telling everyone what they did.

Perhaps at most a live tracker - if you *really* need it.

We forget this is a bunch of kids' lives we're talking about here, can we stop making theatre?

Mind you, I'm someone who finds the Brownlow count mind numbingly boring.
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