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2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

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2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Streaker on Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:29 pm

Well it's mid way through the year again and time to take a long hard look at our list. We seem to be struggling with midfield depth and a lack of higher quality ruck options once Nic Nat is injured. We need to acquire some depth down back in the form of Key Defenders. Who goes, who stays will be the question.

Trade:

Jarrod Brander: I think Brander will be the name on everyone's lips, not because we want to get rid of him, but because other teams will be into him in a big way. Long term he is our Josh Kennedy replacement but short term he has to bide his time in the WAFL. Clubs will be asking the question. I doubt we'd trade him but if Geelong ask the question in regard to part of the Kelly trade then you'd have to ask which way the Eagles hierarchy will go.

Matt Allen: Been challenged to play a midfield role and has been slow to deliver, but he is starting to show promise. Could he seek more opportunity at another club and will anyone want him?

Jackson Nelson: May be opportunities available back home.

Daniel Venables: Not sure where he's at in terms of development. I'm not sold on his ability to move into the midfield. Does he have currency?

Delist:

There are a few players not living up to expectation. The following names would be almost certain to be packing their bags at the end of the year. The only thing that may save some is that we generally haven't been a team that cuts deep.

Kurt Mutimer Hasn't made inroads and out of contract at the end of the year.
Hamish Brayshaw Quite a few injuries but still hasn't shown a lot to get excited about. Out of Contract
Brendon Ah Chee Hasn't lived up to expectation after looking for more opportunity. Out of Contract

Retire:

Chris Masten Unfortunately his time has come. Looked great in our premiership year.
Will SchofieldDo we keep him on another year for depth down back?
Lewis Jetta Out of Contract but should probably get another year because of his disposal.

Rookies

Josh Smith Great runner but I can see why Collingwood let him go.
Fraser McInnnes 8 years as a rookie and still not looking like getting a game. For mine he's gone.

Bines and Riach Not sure how they are coming along but like most Category B rookies not much is expected.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:12 am

Venables is an interesting one for sure. Looked promising last year, but been off it this year and has been passed by petch and now cameron with a solid debut is also staking a strong claim,whilst we also try and fit brander and waterman into our forward line.

Definitely needs to work on his midfield tank but also not a lot of opportunities there either. He also took a long time to recover from his concussion, so there may be sone red flags there too so we may try to extract some trade value from him.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:06 pm

Streaker wrote:Well it's mid way through the year again and time to take a long hard look at our list. We seem to be struggling with midfield depth and a lack of higher quality ruck options once Nic Nat is injured. We need to acquire some depth down back in the form of Key Defenders. Who goes, who stays will be the question.

Trade:

Jarrod Brander: I think Brander will be the name on everyone's lips, not because we want to get rid of him, but because other teams will be into him in a big way. Long term he is our Josh Kennedy replacement but short term he has to bide his time in the WAFL. Clubs will be asking the question. I doubt we'd trade him but if Geelong ask the question in regard to part of the Kelly trade then you'd have to ask which way the Eagles hierarchy will go.

Matt Allen: Been challenged to play a midfield role and has been slow to deliver, but he is starting to show promise. Could he seek more opportunity at another club and will anyone want him?

Jackson Nelson: May be opportunities available back home.

Daniel Venables: Not sure where he's at in terms of development. I'm not sold on his ability to move into the midfield. Does he have currency?

Delist:

There are a few players not living up to expectation. The following names would be almost certain to be packing their bags at the end of the year. The only thing that may save some is that we generally haven't been a team that cuts deep.

Kurt Mutimer Hasn't made inroads and out of contract at the end of the year.
Hamish Brayshaw Quite a few injuries but still hasn't shown a lot to get excited about. Out of Contract
Brendon Ah Chee Hasn't lived up to expectation after looking for more opportunity. Out of Contract

Retire:

Chris Masten Unfortunately his time has come. Looked great in our premiership year.
Will SchofieldDo we keep him on another year for depth down back?
Lewis Jetta Out of Contract but should probably get another year because of his disposal.

Rookies

Josh Smith Great runner but I can see why Collingwood let him go.
Fraser McInnnes 8 years as a rookie and still not looking like getting a game. For mine he's gone.

Bines and Riach Not sure how they are coming along but like most Category B rookies not much is expected.


We have to retain Brander at all costs. An emerging star who is developing nicely.

Allen has done just about everything to get a game. I think we need to retain him for another year. Opportunities are rare in our midfield and he is up against it. I hope he gets a game this year because he has had a long development phase and should be ready to go. The same could be said for Watson, who appears on the brink, but just can't get over the selection line. Injury hasn't helped as when an opportunity presents, he's injured.

Nelson is important to us as he and Cole are fighting for the same position. A healthy rivalry and Nelson is showing a bit now. Both are young and should be retained.

I have a lot of faith in Venables. He has terrific hands inside and great vision. Like Allen, he is starved of midfield opportunities so may have to bide his time as a high half forward. Masten departing may push him closer to a permanent midfield spot.

If Ah Chee doesn't get a game this year then he must depart. He is clearly part of a salary cap squeeze (like Smith), where we need cheap experienced players to balance the growing list of high salary earners in the club. Schofield may be traded. I think he does enough to get a game at a St Kilda or Gold Coast. With Barrass ahead of him and an emerging Rotham, he may need to go. Jetta will be retained for another year.

Smith, Mutimer and McInnes go. All have had opportunities and aren't sufficient depth. It may depend on what draft picks we end up with.

Probable delist/retire/trade - Smith, Ah Chee, Mutimer, McInnes, Masten
Possible delist/retire/trade - Brayshaw, Watson, Schofield.

If we trade in Kelly, we will need to trade a very good player to offer value at the trade table and clear salary cap space.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby MrWoollie on Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:21 pm

Fat Side wrote:We have to retain Brander at all costs. An emerging star who is developing nicely.

Agree. It would be like trading out Kennedy to get Judd. Looks good in the short term, but over the next 5-10 years...

Looking at that trade, does anyone now think we didn't win that one overall? Carlton got 145 games out of Judd and we got 200+ from JK, 200+ from Masten and notte a lot with the other pick.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fat Side on Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:38 pm

MrWoollie wrote:
Fat Side wrote:We have to retain Brander at all costs. An emerging star who is developing nicely.

Agree. It would be like trading out Kennedy to get Judd. Looks good in the short term, but over the next 5-10 years...

Looking at that trade, does anyone now think we didn't win that one overall? Carlton got 145 games out of Judd and we got 200+ from JK, 200+ from Masten and notte a lot with the other pick.


Definitely a win for us. Besides JK is a premiership player and dual Coleman medalist and arguably our most important player. A true superstar of the competition.

I've said this before, but a top level key position player is worth three top mids.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Perrythegreat on Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:30 am

Can't see Venables or Brander going. They are part of the future, for sure.

Our midfield is a good mix of youth and experience, but we have to face the following over the coming few years:

Retire in next 3 years
Redden - 29 this year.
Masten - 30 already
Shuey - just turned 29
Hutchings - 28

Mid-long term
Gaff - just turned 27
Yeo - turning 26
Sheed - 24
Duggan - turning 23 (reckon he will switch to the midfield once the top category starts to retire)
Nelson - 23 (could move to midfield)
Watson - 23 (could move to midfield)
Cole - 22 (could play in the midfield later in career)

Long term
Venables - turning 21
Petrucelle - 20
O'Neill - 18
Brayshaw - 21
Foley - 19
Ainsworth - 20

Out of all that Watson and Nelson the most at risk, with Masten likely to go at the end of the year (either retire of delisted you'd think).

I think Nelson and Watson have a future. Too hard to call on some of the Long term guys, but Petrucelle and Venables have shown they have the talent.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby CouchPotato on Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:18 pm

The Tim Kelly trade is now becomeing too big and too dangerous for us to consider.

Even if he is as good as a Chris Judd / Dangerfield / Gablett etc. (which I doubt) the asking price is going to be too high. Plus he sounds like he wants a fair bit of coin which will cost us one of our up and comers who want to be recognised for their value.

He looks great in a midfield that includes Dangerfield, Ablett, Selwood and Duncan. How good did Daniel Kerr look when he was getting the 4th best mid as an opponent every week?

I also sit firmly in the 'Don't you F*&cking dare trade Brander' camp. The value of him sliding to our pick 13 (touted as a top 10) is huge while Kennedy is still around to help him develop. Plus he can develop in the WAFL and maintain confidence. Brander, Allen, Ryan, Ainsworth and Petrucelle in that draft - wow.

Tim Kelly is a hail Mary trade that we just don't need to make and we are yet to see one of these big trades pay off in the modern day AFL.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:50 pm

CouchPotato wrote:I also sit firmly in the 'Don't you F*&cking dare trade Brander' camp. The value of him sliding to our pick 13 (touted as a top 10) is huge while Kennedy is still around to help him develop.


Pretty sure Brander started the year touted as a number one! Steal of the century. Looked great in the WAFL game on the weekend especially in the wet, could still clunk a mark.

Reckon Kelly is as good as he seems but unaffordable so that's that; and who deserves to lose their spot or never get a chance. Happy with the players we have.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fat Side on Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:19 am

Fair Bump Play On wrote:
CouchPotato wrote:I also sit firmly in the 'Don't you F*&cking dare trade Brander' camp. The value of him sliding to our pick 13 (touted as a top 10) is huge while Kennedy is still around to help him develop.


Pretty sure Brander started the year touted as a number one! Steal of the century. Looked great in the WAFL game on the weekend especially in the wet, could still clunk a mark.

Reckon Kelly is as good as he seems but unaffordable so that's that; and who deserves to lose their spot or never get a chance. Happy with the players we have.


How much we pay him may be decided by how desperate he is to return to WA and play for us. It's the trade aspect that concerns me. I would rather we do a trade of picks to Adelaide to secure their No. 1 pick this year, then let Kelly nominate for the draft. Provided Adelaide aren't interested in Kelly, they may be prepared to deal (or deal with the team with pick 2 - dare I say it could be GC). That way, if Geelong are unreasonable, we can get him for a high end pick rather than throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Geelong get nothing for being greedy.

We gave up Judd (Clearly a better player than Kelly) and a pick in the late 40s for picks 3, 20 and JK. Geelong are seeking more than that. It's madness and should be dismissed out of hand.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby MrWoollie on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:41 pm

Fat Side wrote:How much we pay him may be decided by how desperate he is to return to WA and play for us. It's the trade aspect that concerns me. I would rather we do a trade of picks to Adelaide to secure their No. 1 pick this year, then let Kelly nominate for the draft. Provided Adelaide aren't interested in Kelly, they may be prepared to deal (or deal with the team with pick 2 - dare I say it could be GC). That way, if Geelong are unreasonable, we can get him for a high end pick rather than throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Geelong get nothing for being greedy.

We gave up Judd (Clearly a better player than Kelly) and a pick in the late 40s for picks 3, 20 and JK. Geelong are seeking more than that. It's madness and should be dismissed out of hand.

We do have some history is paying overs for want to come home players.

Daniel Chick - pick 8. A good player but not a pick 8. Hawks aware of 'issues' and couldn't offload fast enough. Gave up a top 10 pick for a 5 year, 100 gamer.
S Wellingham - pick 18. Horrible overpay at the time and even worse with hindsight. Brody Grundy or Sharrod Wellingham? A 1st round pick for a #5 at his club midfielder who was never tagged or played on a top level opposition mid. It was silly at the time. Got a 5 year, 79 game, average to poor mid who did a bit better when put in the backline but was not the midfield saviour the club needed.
Tyson Stenglein - draft picks 12 and 28. I loved this guy. He was a good hard contributor, but picks 12 & 28 for someone with only 5 years of playing life left?
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Perrythegreat on Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:59 pm

But we have some good examples, such as Elliott Yeo (pick 28), Jamie Cripps (see below), even Josh Hill (pick 49) was a decent deal for us.

Cripps deal (wowzers - what a fleecing):
The Saints sent pick 46 in the draft to the Eagles along with Cripps - and received picks 41 and 44 in return.

I'm sure there are other examples.

We got fleeced on Ebert, but is hard when they want to go.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Fat Side on Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:35 pm

MrWoollie wrote:
Fat Side wrote:How much we pay him may be decided by how desperate he is to return to WA and play for us. It's the trade aspect that concerns me. I would rather we do a trade of picks to Adelaide to secure their No. 1 pick this year, then let Kelly nominate for the draft. Provided Adelaide aren't interested in Kelly, they may be prepared to deal (or deal with the team with pick 2 - dare I say it could be GC). That way, if Geelong are unreasonable, we can get him for a high end pick rather than throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Geelong get nothing for being greedy.

We gave up Judd (Clearly a better player than Kelly) and a pick in the late 40s for picks 3, 20 and JK. Geelong are seeking more than that. It's madness and should be dismissed out of hand.

We do have some history is paying overs for want to come home players.

Daniel Chick - pick 8. A good player but not a pick 8. Hawks aware of 'issues' and couldn't offload fast enough. Gave up a top 10 pick for a 5 year, 100 gamer.
S Wellingham - pick 18. Horrible overpay at the time and even worse with hindsight. Brody Grundy or Sharrod Wellingham? A 1st round pick for a #5 at his club midfielder who was never tagged or played on a top level opposition mid. It was silly at the time. Got a 5 year, 79 game, average to poor mid who did a bit better when put in the backline but was not the midfield saviour the club needed.
Tyson Stenglein - draft picks 12 and 28. I loved this guy. He was a good hard contributor, but picks 12 & 28 for someone with only 5 years of playing life left?


Chick and Stenglein were worth every cent. We would have won our third premiership last year if not for their efforts. They were exactly what we needed and they delivered.
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:00 am

Fat Side wrote:
MrWoollie wrote:
Fat Side wrote:How much we pay him may be decided by how desperate he is to return to WA and play for us. It's the trade aspect that concerns me. I would rather we do a trade of picks to Adelaide to secure their No. 1 pick this year, then let Kelly nominate for the draft. Provided Adelaide aren't interested in Kelly, they may be prepared to deal (or deal with the team with pick 2 - dare I say it could be GC). That way, if Geelong are unreasonable, we can get him for a high end pick rather than throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Geelong get nothing for being greedy.

We gave up Judd (Clearly a better player than Kelly) and a pick in the late 40s for picks 3, 20 and JK. Geelong are seeking more than that. It's madness and should be dismissed out of hand.

We do have some history is paying overs for want to come home players.

Daniel Chick - pick 8. A good player but not a pick 8. Hawks aware of 'issues' and couldn't offload fast enough. Gave up a top 10 pick for a 5 year, 100 gamer.
S Wellingham - pick 18. Horrible overpay at the time and even worse with hindsight. Brody Grundy or Sharrod Wellingham? A 1st round pick for a #5 at his club midfielder who was never tagged or played on a top level opposition mid. It was silly at the time. Got a 5 year, 79 game, average to poor mid who did a bit better when put in the backline but was not the midfield saviour the club needed.
Tyson Stenglein - draft picks 12 and 28. I loved this guy. He was a good hard contributor, but picks 12 & 28 for someone with only 5 years of playing life left?


Chick and Stenglein were worth every cent. We would have won our third premiership last year if not for their efforts. They were exactly what we needed and they delivered.


The benefits of hindsight...

Stenglein we gave up 12 and 28. We ended up picking up rosa at 29 so ive looked at who was selected between those picks.

Danny meyer, angus monfries, lynden dunn, adam pattinson, andrew mcqualter, cameron wood, ryan willits, dean polo, thomas murphy, jesse wells, sean rusling, nathan van berlo, adam hartlett, matt little, pat garner, chad gibson.

NVB and monfries in hindsight only 2 decenr players worth mentioning. Would we win a flag replacing stenglein with those 2? Probably not.

In 2002 our nect selection after the pick we traded for chick was 24 and we selected paul johnson. Between that and 8 there was

Luke brennan, hamish mcintosh, jason laycock,jason winderlich, jay shulz, byron schammer, daniel bell, nick smith, stephen gilham, cameron falkner, kris shore, troy selwood, bo nixon, will minson, matthew ferguson and tom lonergan.

Of that group not many really surpassed chicks output either.

So all up, did we really lose out? Would jay shulz angus monfries and NVB have delivered us a flag in 05 or 06?
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Mykidsdad on Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:13 am

https://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/the- ... ft-history

Gives you a view on how we have performed through the draft - been some good hits and a few misses
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Re: 2019 : Trade -:- Delist -:- Retire

Postby Perrythegreat on Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:26 pm

Mykidsdad wrote:https://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/the-club/history/draft-and-trade-history/wce-draft-history

Gives you a view on how we have performed through the draft - been some good hits and a few misses


Interesting read that. '11, '12 & '14 were poor (well '14 is looking poor).

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