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2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

The list and its future

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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:15 pm

Mr Q wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:But in their 1st year on our list, we should see the most dramatic improvement ever.


The problem is that there's always exceptions to this: see J.McGovern.

To be clearer: 'm talking about predominantly about guys who have already had a crack elsewhere and been delisted, or are late-bloomers already in their early 20s.

Although I suppose that ye it could also apply to young guys taken with speculative pics in the RD.
In which case I would add the rider that you may have to allow that a Tall may tae a couple of extra years, or that you have to allow for late-bloomers.

But the overall rationale still applies. They may not even get to "WAFL level" in that first year, but there should still be a big improvement.
And people forget that McGovern did improve in those early years. He went from playing in the Magoos to winning a premiership with Claremont. People just remembering him turning up overweight, but forget he'd missed most of the year with a broken leg.
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Fat Side on Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:15 am

https://www.afl.com.au/news/526052/-dee ... decisions-

SYDNEY has parted ways with first-year forward Elijah Taylor as he awaits sentencing for an aggravated assault charge, declaring his actions could "not be reconciled".


Hopefully he can focus on getting himself right, playing WAFL footy and hopefully getting a second crack somewhere
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Crazy Dazz on Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:44 pm

Fat Side wrote:https://www.afl.com.au/news/526052/-deeply-regrettable-swans-sack-taylor-after-very-poor-decisions-

SYDNEY has parted ways with first-year forward Elijah Taylor as he awaits sentencing for an aggravated assault charge, declaring his actions could "not be reconciled".


Hopefully he can focus on getting himself right, playing WAFL footy and hopefully getting a second crack somewhere

The AFL and clubs need to start taking responsibility for the problems they exacerbate.
They draft these kids; from clearly troubled backgrounds; take them away from any structure and support they do have; hand them a sack of cash; and let them loose. Apparently without any mentoring or off-field guidance. Then feign shock when it inevitably all turns to shit.

l don’t in any way excuse or condone any of his behaviour. But we have to stop ignoring these problems and pretending footy will fix everything.

l don’t know the details of his upbringing only that he had to live with his Grandparents during his teens. As a general rule indigenous kids are far more likely to have grown up in poverty; experienced domestic violence; substance abuse; and had diminished educational outcomes.
Clubs need to do their due-diligence on these draftees and put in place appropriate structures and programs to support and mentor these kids.

My industry has made significant progress in Indigenous Employment and Training. And we haven’t done that by ignoring problem; but by dealing with them.
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Fat Side on Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:23 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:
Fat Side wrote:https://www.afl.com.au/news/526052/-deeply-regrettable-swans-sack-taylor-after-very-poor-decisions-

SYDNEY has parted ways with first-year forward Elijah Taylor as he awaits sentencing for an aggravated assault charge, declaring his actions could "not be reconciled".


Hopefully he can focus on getting himself right, playing WAFL footy and hopefully getting a second crack somewhere

The AFL and clubs need to start taking responsibility for the problems they exacerbate.
They draft these kids; from clearly troubled backgrounds; take them away from any structure and support they do have; hand them a sack of cash; and let them loose. Apparently without any mentoring or off-field guidance. Then feign shock when it inevitably all turns to shit.

l don’t in any way excuse or condone any of his behaviour. But we have to stop ignoring these problems and pretending footy will fix everything.

l don’t know the details of his upbringing only that he had to live with his Grandparents during his teens. As a general rule indigenous kids are far more likely to have grown up in poverty; experienced domestic violence; substance abuse; and had diminished educational outcomes.
Clubs need to do their due-diligence on these draftees and put in place appropriate structures and programs to support and mentor these kids.

My industry has made significant progress in Indigenous Employment and Training. And we haven’t done that by ignoring problem; but by dealing with them.


Hard to argue against any of that. We have seen it before and it is more prevalent with indigenous kids. They represent more of a risk because of the issues you mention in addition to their close family ties, their country and culture. I think a lot has been done to better support kids (indigenous or otherwise) and there will always be the odd one that slips between the cracks. It is a wake-up call to revisit current structures with a view to improving them.

This is a tragic result for a young kid and we could add Sydney Stack to that. They may have had troubled backgrounds/supports and, in Stack's case, almost left him un-drafted despite his obvious high level talent. Now he's serving a long suspension. I have no doubt that the Covid instigated hubs have adversely affected a few players that struggled with the isolation and distance from home, families and support. Certainly Covid isolation has factored into both Stack's and Taylor's troubles. Having said that, it isn't just the indigenous kids that struggled.

I truly hope he gets another go with a club that is capable of wrapping themselves around him and providing what he needs to succeed. That way it's a win win.
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Streaker on Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:02 am

As we have a decent mentoring team in place, should we pick him up as a Delisted Free Agent or are we too afraid to take on someone with a "bad boy" image in case it tarnishes the brand? There's no doubting his talent or his remorse for his misdemeanours.
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Fat Side on Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:00 am

Streaker wrote:As we have a decent mentoring team in place, should we pick him up as a Delisted Free Agent or are we too afraid to take on someone with a "bad boy" image in case it tarnishes the brand? There's no doubting his talent or his remorse for his misdemeanours.


Either that or have him train with us over the Summer and see how that pans out. If it's good we could get him in the SSP.

An interesting comment in the AFL website article was that Sydney felt that his actions 'could not be reconciled.' I don't know if the behaviour is an automatic dismissal or whether the club tried to work through it with him, his family and management, and they couldn't find a path forward. If it's the latter, then he may be a very difficult prospect.

I can't see us jumping on him quickly given the assault on a woman and they would not want to be seen to be taking advantage of an available player who has perpetrated such an offence. Like you say; we could be brand/image sensitive
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Crazy Dazz on Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:55 pm

Streaker wrote:As we have a decent mentoring team in place, should we pick him up as a Delisted Free Agent or are we too afraid to take on someone with a "bad boy" image in case it tarnishes the brand? There's no doubting his talent or his remorse for his misdemeanours.

It would be interesting to know where Phil Narkle fits into the picture.
He could be a cousin to Elijah’s mum; which in an Indigenous family would make him an Uncle. He could be well placed to get the kid back on the straight and narrow.
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:41 pm

No. Just no.
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:28 am

Fair Bump Play On wrote:No. Just no.

As I was trying to say, what's important is to get these kids back on track with LIFE. Staying away from trouble, becoming "productive members of society", and becoming the role models for the next generation, that they themselves lacked.
Footy by itself is not the answer.
Maybe it can be used as a tool, but there is a lot of other work required.
Sadly we need only look to our own former player to witness the attitude to family and fatherhood that has become prevalent in some circles.

We decimated Indigenous Culture for 200 years. It wasn't allowed to mature and grow into the modern world, but instead was left to rot. Later we tried throwing money at it.
There are many Good Indigenous people working on this, including many former Footy players, and with the right support progress is being made.

At the most, I would want to see Taylor in a mentoring & training programme. With guys like Phil and Wirra. Try and get his life on track, with a possible return to AFL in a year or so.
Years back, Sheedy suggested an Indigenous Rookie list, which I think has merit, but the current structure doesn't really allow for such.
The problem with the Indigenous Academies, are that in our case they are restricted to remote regions, and that other clubs treat them as rort.
Last edited by Crazy Dazz on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Fat Side on Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:13 pm

A picture and headline on FB today of Cedric Cox training with Duggan, XO and Nic Nat.

Perhaps we'll look to rookie list him or have him train over the summer in view of a SSP
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Crazy Dazz on Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:08 pm

Fat Side wrote:A picture and headline on FB today of Cedric Cox training with Duggan, XO and Nic Nat.

Perhaps we'll look to rookie list him or have him train over the summer in view of a SSP

I'm not 100% clear on the SSP. I thought that players had to be out of AFL for a year? But then we picked up Jones, so apparently not.

I'm very glad that we're at least have a look at Cox. He's got pace, which we seem to lack. Not saying he gets a spot, just good that we're having a look.
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:33 am

So, by my count, our primary lists are now full? 37 Seniors and 5 Rookies?

So unless we do something with Venables or Rioli, that's it. No players in the SSP?

The fact we have redrafted Venables makes me wonder if we can still place him on the inactive list?

No announcement on Rioli, so I assume he remains on our list, with a new contract dependent on the outcome of his hearing. Hopefully the Eagles have Good reason for their optimism.

So what does that mean for Cedric Cox and Alec Waterman?
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Fat Side on Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:36 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:So, by my count, our primary lists are now full? 37 Seniors and 5 Rookies?

So unless we do something with Venables or Rioli, that's it. No players in the SSP?

The fact we have redrafted Venables makes me wonder if we can still place him on the inactive list?

No announcement on Rioli, so I assume he remains on our list, with a new contract dependent on the outcome of his hearing. Hopefully the Eagles have Good reason for their optimism.

So what does that mean for Cedric Cox and Alec Waterman?


Max list size of 44 so we have two more picks
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:22 pm

Fat Side wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:So, by my count, our primary lists are now full? 37 Seniors and 5 Rookies?

So unless we do something with Venables or Rioli, that's it. No players in the SSP?

The fact we have redrafted Venables makes me wonder if we can still place him on the inactive list?

No announcement on Rioli, so I assume he remains on our list, with a new contract dependent on the outcome of his hearing. Hopefully the Eagles have Good reason for their optimism.

So what does that mean for Cedric Cox and Alec Waterman?


Max list size of 44 so we have two more picks

It's doing my head in too, but that 44 includes the 2 Cat B slots.
Senior List is 36-38 and we have 37
Rookie List is 4-6 and we have 5
Total of 42
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Re: 2020: Trade-Targets, Free Agents, Rookies & Roughies

Postby Fat Side on Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:47 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:
Fat Side wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:So, by my count, our primary lists are now full? 37 Seniors and 5 Rookies?

So unless we do something with Venables or Rioli, that's it. No players in the SSP?

The fact we have redrafted Venables makes me wonder if we can still place him on the inactive list?

No announcement on Rioli, so I assume he remains on our list, with a new contract dependent on the outcome of his hearing. Hopefully the Eagles have Good reason for their optimism.

So what does that mean for Cedric Cox and Alec Waterman?


Max list size of 44 so we have two more picks

It's doing my head in too, but that 44 includes the 2 Cat B slots.
Senior List is 36-38 and we have 37
Rookie List is 4-6 and we have 5
Total of 42


https://www.zerohanger.com/afl-and-play ... ays-69814/

For 2021, clubs can have a maximum of 38 primary players and six rookie players on their list for a total of 44 players potentially. Clubs are allowed to have more than six rookies, but will need to lower their total of primary players to do so. All clubs must have at least one rookie listed player, with a total minimum of 37 players listed (36 primary and one rookie).


I see where you are coming from, but the issue of only having 42 players maximum without Cat B rookies isn't clear from what I have read. I have read a few media outlet pieces on this and I'm am none the wiser really. The above quote suggests we can have a min 37 players with a least one rookie and a max 44 players including rookies (no mention of Cat B). Others say min 37 with at least one rookie and a max 44 including maximum 38 senior players and six rookies including Cat B.

If the above quote is anything to go by, we can recruit two more rookies to take our list to 44.

All that is clear to me is that lists must have at least 37 players. This must include at least 36 and no more than 38 senior players, but must include at least one rookie. Anyway, I'll stand to be corrected.
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