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Free Agency is Broken

The list and its future

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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:59 pm

MrWoollie wrote:

When they say 'joining best clubs' they mean biggest Melbourne clubs...
or we're not considered a 'best club'.
By the Fox list we have lost big Q, S Selwood and Lycett whilst picking up 1 x fringe/outer Xavier Ellis.

And yes, we've been saying it for years. Free agency favors the big (Melb) clubs, especially those willing to play loose and free with the rules.

Therein lies the problem.

The Salary cap has always been a problem. Firstly, trying to deal with the myriad forms of income available that are perfectly legit, but nonetheless tied to their roles as football players.
The next level, is clubs and their associates giving jobs to family members. Nomatter how much it stinks, the AFL can do nothing about it.
And the biggest issue, is players being paid under the table, especially by associates, sponsors, or just wealthy supporters. We KNOW it happens, because there is simply no way to stop it.

The only balance to this has been that the draft and trade system limits clubs ability to simply poach players with money.
Free Agency has broken that.
It costs these clubs nothing in terms of picks or players.

Lest we underestimate the enormity of this, in reality what this means is that whilst clubs like us are filling our last spots on the list with supplemental selections like Nic Reid (ie zero cost options)
The Big Melbourne clubs are grabbing the elite stars, also for zero cost.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Fat Side on Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:47 am

The AFL website (sliding doors) alluded to the FA compensation process being rorted.

They suggested that clubs seeking to sign FAs from other clubs are rorting the offers made to the original club. For instance; club A wants an FA from club B. Club A puts an offer to pay the FA say $800k per year. That figure would put the player into the top 5% of earners at club A. That means that club B generally receives a first round draft pick as compensation. Had club A paid the FA say $600k per year club B would likely receive a second round draft pick as compensation. This is where things become more complicated.

It is suggested that, in the example above, club B pays say $200k per year to a different player at club A. Essentially the $200k allows club A to offer more to the FA and therefore club B gets a higher draft pick as compensation. It is also suggested that the clubs know this type of behaviour is going on. I hope all that makes sense.

The AFL website is doing what most of us have said or thought since FA became a thing - What is the AFL's formula for compensation? Why is it not transparent? I think we know why it's kept quiet in order to better compensate teams at the bottom of the ladder and less so those at the top. If deals like the example above are being done, the AFL will need to fix it.

My view is that any compensation paid to the club losing the FA should be paid by the club receiving the player, not every other club.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Streaker on Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:38 pm

1 day into Free Agency for the year and our pick 30 is now 33. Will end up as pick 40+ by time Free agency and NGA/FS picks are done.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Crazy Dazz on Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:28 pm

Fat Side wrote:My view is that any compensation paid to the club losing the FA should be paid by the club receiving the player, not every other club.
Streaker wrote:1 day into Free Agency for the year and our pick 30 is now 33. Will end up as pick 40+ by time Free agency and NGA/FS picks are done.

The basic premise of the compensation works in two ways. Firstly the better the losing cub, the worse the pick they get (assuming its an in-round pick), AND clubs finishing better than the losing clubs are hit the most, whereas those with picks before are not. This feeds to the concept of equalisation. As a concept, it's not too bad.
However in practise there are many problems.
1) Free Agency was supposed to be about pissweak clubs (with salary cap to burn) being able to buy players on the open market, without trading the farm away. But in practice it has been already powerful clubs buying up talent (and magically still staying witin the salary cap.
2) It ignores the random and capricious nature of the clubs, and trades, and so the choice over whether or not to "match" is too arbitrary Cameron will cost Geelong a bundle, and rightly so, but if GWS had finished worse, they might have let him go.
3) Timing is everything. Given the way some clubs can improve or sink rapidly, a year's difference in contract length, can mean a big difference in compo.
4) It gives a whole new dimension to tanking. GWS were on track to play finals, realised they were losing a bunch of players to FA, and oops somehow lost their last three games (including to Adelaide ffs.)

First thing they need to fix is that FA needs to be based on games played, not years on the list.
Then it's Simple.
For unrestricted, value is determined by the new contract. For restricted, existing club must make an offer before FA begins, and the value is determined by the larger of the two. (Either club can appeal to the AFL is they think there is funny business.)
Then points are allocated, in line with the existing points system, and equivalent draft picks are transferred from the new club to the old. (AFL can create, swap, and split picks as required to make the numbers work.)
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Fat Side on Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:37 pm

Streaker wrote:1 day into Free Agency for the year and our pick 30 is now 33. Will end up as pick 40+ by time Free agency and NGA/FS picks are done.


Yep, it's a fucked FA system. The FS doesn't bother me because those clubs were getting the FS selection anyway, but are now paying closer to their value. The days of Ablett at pick 40, Libba (41) and Josh Kennedy (40) are over. The NGAs have been exploited within an inch of its life and needs to be reigned in.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby MrWoollie on Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:10 pm

Fat Side wrote:The AFL website (sliding doors) alluded to the FA compensation process being rorted.

They suggested that clubs seeking to sign FAs from other clubs are rorting the offers made to the original club.


Also mentioned compo a few times. How Daniher pick 7 is a joke and also said what many of us have thought for years...

'When it comes to its free agency compensation formula, it is fair to say that on historical examples, there is no formula. Only a gut feel combined with a need to prop up certain clubs combined with a desire to drag down certain others combined with the all-important vibe.'

And we know where WC sits on the prop up vs. drag down ladder.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Crazy Dazz on Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:05 pm

AFL.com keeps saying that GWS is the first club to match a bid.

Am I missing something? Isn't tat what happened with Dangerfield?
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby MrWoollie on Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:29 am

Crazy Dazz wrote:AFL.com keeps saying that GWS is the first club to match a bid.

Am I missing something? Isn't tat what happened with Dangerfield?

Adelaide threatened to match and Geelong negotiated. No bid matching happened. No free agency paperwork was lodged.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Crazy Dazz on Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:37 am

MrWoollie wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:AFL.com keeps saying that GWS is the first club to match a bid.

Am I missing something? Isn't tat what happened with Dangerfield?

Adelaide threatened to match and Geelong negotiated. No bid matching happened. No free agency paperwork was lodged.

ah oh, thanks
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:25 pm

Fair Bump Play On wrote:Even better, they thought they were getting a player for free and every other club would pay the price, good on GWS for calling them to account with a fair price. Happy days.
:D :D :D

But it does highlight the stupid nature of the FA system.
Hawks were forced to accept a compo pick for Buddy (pick 19) who was twice the player Cameron is.
(and in the same year Dees got pick 23 for Silvia. ROFL)
Imagine where the Hawks might be today if they'd gotten 3 first rounders for Buddy??

Or, what id Geelong had told Cameron to stay put for one more year. They COULD have had him for nothing.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Mr Q on Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:10 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:Or, what id Geelong had told Cameron to stay put for one more year. They COULD have had him for nothing.


He still would have been a restricted free agent, as he'd certainly still have been at or near the top of GWS's salaries. So GWS could have just pulled the same trick next year.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Crazy Dazz on Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:22 pm

Mr Q wrote:
Crazy Dazz wrote:Or, what id Geelong had told Cameron to stay put for one more year. They COULD have had him for nothing.

He still would have been a restricted free agent, as he'd certainly still have been at or near the top of GWS's salaries. So GWS could have just pulled the same trick next year.

Next year would be 10 years and therefore unrestricted.

It's ridiculous to think what a difference that makes.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:07 pm

The system has been broken from the start. Clubs getting great players for nothing, other clubs unfairly being shuffled down the draft order because the AFL slips in some compensation. Strong clubs like Richmond, Geelong and the Hawks staying strong as destination clubs. A terrible system.

Clubs gaining players need to be giving up the equivalent based on the players contract. Maybe draft picks or draft points similar to farther son. Maybe players back the other way could be part of that with their 'value' part of the deal. Something needs to be done.
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Re: Free Agency is Broken

Postby Fat Side on Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:29 am

There are two things I liked about the GWS approach to the Cameron (and RFA) deals.

1) They stared down Geelong and got what they wanted.
2) More importantly, this should be a clear message to all clubs with RFAs. If the player is one of your best, ALWAYS match the offer and force a trade. I bet Adelaide are spitting over the Crouch trade. They could have got a pick in the teens had they matched.
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