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Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby Frankie on Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:20 pm

Ric wrote:
Frankie wrote:What's this about NicNat and OP?

I read somewhere that someone overheard Karl Langdon banging on about it, and now a couple of posters appear to be treating it as fact. But from what Simpson has said, NicNat should be fine. And IIRC he has categorically stated that the club has not been, and will not be, cryptic about injuries to NicNat or any other players. I know the club doesn't exactly have a good past record with regard to the degree of openness about injuries to players, but I'd be disappointed if Simpson has continued that practice and is hiding something sinister, or just not telling the whole truth.


Did he not have this problem for a good part of last year. "Should be fine" is not that reassuring. "Is fine" would be more convincing.


I can't remember what his exact words were, but the impression I got was that the match committee were just being cautious about when to play him, and that he would probably play by round one, if not before. They could of course be hiding something, but I recall Simpson expressly declaring that the club had no reason to be anything but open about the extent of injuries to players. So make of that what you want, but it would clearly go against the grain of what was said if there were longer term concerns about NicNat.

And I wasn't aware his issue last year was specifically OP, although I know it was his groin. If it was OP, than I can understand the concerns about the possibility of ongoing physical issues with NicNat (although I admit to not being particularly knowledgeable about such injuries). But this would mean that the club is not being frank with supporters which, as I said, contradicts what Simpson said.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby Mead on Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:38 pm

I'm mildly concerned.

If he just played healthy at the level he's shown he's capable of and doesn't improve an iota between now and when he retires, he is an AA grade ruckman. If he has an even fairly standard improvement curve between now and game 200, he could finish his career as, literally, the very best player to play for this club ever. Healthy, he is off the charts good, and has an influence on the game way beyond on what his stats line suggests.

But he has been carrying essentially the same groin injury for the best part of the last 2 years, including through two full preseasons. And he's a player whose game is built around his pace, acceleration and leaping ability, attributes which do not play nice with groin injuries.

Really, really hope we are not having essentially the same conversation this time next year.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby JYD on Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:32 pm

Mead wrote:I'm mildly concerned.

If he just played healthy at the level he's shown he's capable of and doesn't improve an iota between now and when he retires, he is an AA grade ruckman. If he has an even fairly standard improvement curve between now and game 200, he could finish his career as, literally, the very best player to play for this club ever. Healthy, he is off the charts good, and has an influence on the game way beyond on what his stats line suggests.

But he has been carrying essentially the same groin injury for the best part of the last 2 years, including through two full preseasons. And he's a player whose game is built around his pace, acceleration and leaping ability, attributes which do not play nice with groin injuries.

Really, really hope we are not having essentially the same conversation this time next year.


One year of which he was AA quality. As has been mentioned, few players have their career totally ruined by OP. Worth every cent.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby farmer joe on Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:46 pm

JYD wrote: As has been mentioned, few players have their career totally ruined by OP. Worth every cent.

Chris Judd wouldn't have made 200 games if the eagles had continued to manage his groin.
Great article by Steve Butler today. Explains it all. If NN truly was a eagle for life he wouldn't want $million/year.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby cheese on Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:07 pm

farmer joe wrote:
JYD wrote: As has been mentioned, few players have their career totally ruined by OP. Worth every cent.

Chris Judd wouldn't have made 200 games if the eagles had continued to manage his groin.
Great article by Steve Butler today. Explains it all. If NN truly was a eagle for life he wouldn't want $million/year.
But farmer (P...) that's just ridiculous. Are we saying making a business decision on the very small period of his working life is not showing he truly loves being an Eagle. Ask that bloke who wrote the article to start doing it for free because he truly loves being a journo. Loving the club and not taking the best offer you can get are totally different things. I love the company I work for now but if there was any way I could improve my income even if lessening theirs I would in a heartbeat.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby Ric on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:24 pm

Mead wrote:........................ And he's a player whose game is built around his pace, acceleration and leaping ability, attributes which do not play nice with groin injuries.
......................


And that's what worries me about his injury. Take those attributes out of his game and he becomes an ordinary ruckman.
Judd lost his explosive pace, but fortunately for him he still had other attributes that enabled him to still be a good midfielder.
Truly hope he gets rid of this problem. Would love to see his name written down as the greatest ruckman of all time, which he has the potential to be.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby farmer joe on Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:48 pm

cheese wrote:
farmer joe wrote:
JYD wrote: As has been mentioned, few players have their career totally ruined by OP. Worth every cent.

Chris Judd wouldn't have made 200 games if the eagles had continued to manage his groin.
Great article by Steve Butler today. Explains it all. If NN truly was a eagle for life he wouldn't want $million/year.
But farmer (P...) that's just ridiculous. Are we saying making a business decision on the very small period of his working life is not showing he truly loves being an Eagle. Ask that bloke who wrote the article to start doing it for free because he truly loves being a journo. Loving the club and not taking the best offer you can get are totally different things. I love the company I work for now but if there was any way I could improve my income even if lessening theirs I would in a heartbeat.

Would Jimmy B and Stevey J swap the extra flag for Gazza's money? Look at Mello in the NBA. He will leave the Knicks as soon as this year ends and take way less money to ensure he surrounds himself with a winning team (I think he will end up in Housten with Howard and Harden) so he is seen to be a winner when his career is over. Good luck to NN if it is all about money....if it is we should let him walk.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby WCE Booka 89 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:27 pm

It sounds like the contract negotiations were done pretty quickly. Who is to say that Naitanui went up to the club and said " Give me a million a year otherwise I'll go to GWS". The club didn't seem to hesitate so who is to say a million a year wasn't their offer, in which case how can you blame Naitanui for taking it?

If your boss came up to you and say "Hey we really value your work, we want to give you a pay rise" would you turn around and say no?

Jimmy B and Stevie-J weren't living in their dads shadow.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby cheese on Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:53 pm

WCE Booka 89 wrote:It sounds like the contract negotiations were done pretty quickly. Who is to say that Naitanui went up to the club and said " Give me a million a year otherwise I'll go to GWS". The club didn't seem to hesitate so who is to say a million a year wasn't their offer, in which case how can you blame Naitanui for taking it?

If your boss came up to you and say "Hey we really value your work, we want to give you a pay rise" would you turn around and say no?

Jimmy B and Stevie-J weren't living in their dads shadow.
I agree totally Booka. Does playing with someone like Natanui make someone like Stevie J or Bartell or even Andrew Gaff
stay in a playing group that looks like having success?
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby Mead on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:51 pm

Ric wrote:
Mead wrote:........................ And he's a player whose game is built around his pace, acceleration and leaping ability, attributes which do not play nice with groin injuries.
......................


And that's what worries me about his injury. Take those attributes out of his game and he becomes an ordinary ruckman.
Judd lost his explosive pace, but fortunately for him he still had other attributes that enabled him to still be a good midfielder.
Truly hope he gets rid of this problem. Would love to see his name written down as the greatest ruckman of all time, which he has the potential to be.


In fairness to nicnat (and along the lines of what JYD said) there is a a shitload of ability in the tank even if he lost a yard of pace- he's 200cm, if he had half the leap and pace that he has he'd still be a very good player. I also think his tapwork is instinctively excellent, even without his leap he'd still have that skill.

That said, I found watching Judd at Carlton utterly dispiriting, not just because he wasn't wearing blue and gold, but because it was maddening to see someone who was a lite version of the explosive, powerful, mad acceleration out of packs Judd of 03-06. Even if he was still a quality player, watching Nic Nat play as Nic Nat lite would suck extraordinarily, because of what he could be.

From his perspective, if the club is willing to pay him the money good for him- AFL players have a limited shelf life, and whatever he can bank during their decade or so of earning, good luck to him- heaven knows, if West Coast weren't going to pay him it, GWS would.

From West Coast's perspective though, I just wonder. He is what he is, but its a lot of eggs in a fairly fragile basket.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby JYD on Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:22 am

It's also important to note that Chris Judd tore a muscle (adductor?) and its poor management did some longer-term harm.

OP is a different beast and the vast majority of players who get it (ie. our whole list) seem to get over it.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby snert on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:08 am

JYD wrote:It's also important to note that Chris Judd tore a muscle (adductor?) and its poor management did some longer-term harm.

OP is a different beast and the vast majority of players who get it (ie. our whole list) seem to get over it.


It is also intersting to note that, after leaving WCE, Judd won at least two club champion awards and a Brownlow Medal. If NN can achieve that, we will all be happy.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby Crazy Dazz on Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:07 pm

cheese wrote:In the NBA they are called franchise players and there has never been a truer word said of Nic Natanui. He is a draw card for both the young as HH said
Indeed.
The challenge that WCE faces is not keeping the grannies with their 20+ year memberships, thermoses, and cheese & pickle sandwiches. It is about grabbing the heart of the youngsters, most of whom can't get tickets to the games, many from non-Eagles families, and against the lure of the rampaging and accessible Purple Muppets. Nic Naitanui is the absolute Key to that.

In regards to injury, I'm not sure but don't these contracts include a game-payment component? So if he doesn't play he only receives the base?
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby Ric on Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:56 pm

Crazy Dazz wrote:
cheese wrote:In the NBA they are called franchise players and there has never been a truer word said of Nic Natanui. He is a draw card for both the young as HH said
Indeed.
The challenge that WCE faces is not keeping the grannies with their 20+ year memberships, thermoses, and cheese & pickle sandwiches. It is about grabbing the heart of the youngsters, most of whom can't get tickets to the games, many from non-Eagles families, and against the lure of the rampaging and accessible Purple Muppets. Nic Naitanui is the absolute Key to that.

In regards to injury, I'm not sure but don't these contracts include a game-payment component? So if he doesn't play he only receives the base?


I think it is usually contract plus game payment and if what I was told is correct, everyone gets the same amount for game payment.
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Re: Nic Nat - The Next Million Dollar Kid on the Block?

Postby MelbourneBased on Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:28 pm

Not sure he will make a movie deal out of the book... but great interview

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/melbourne/ ... k/11683292
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