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Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby CouchPotato on Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:20 am

My view is we have one last shot with this list, it's unlikely and it all hinges on us getting our pre-season right and some luck with injuries - but that is every team's issue. Our Game plan needs refreshing with new coaches, and we need a few new faces in our best 22.

Equally, we have enough players on the list who need to go that we can continue to transition the list. Hutch, Vards and Ah Chee are a good start and there are probably 2 or 3 more to go I would think.

I'm guessing Brander has been told he's welcome to look at his options, or here is a small $$ offer from the Eagles. I doubt there are too many chasing him at this point and I still think he could be a valuable player for us... There are many others on the list to go before him.

We probably need to find a backup ruck with Vards going, and then lots of high quality young mids. Actual mids, not half backs who could rotate through, or big bodies who could be the new Cripps, or utilities with a great tank. MIDS.


As an aside - I watched a little bit of the Melb v Eagles Prelim in 2018 last night - the speed with which our players covered the ground, bounced back to their feet after a tackle and had repeat efforts was so vastly different to this year. Age, fitness, desire - whatever you call it, that is what is missing.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:01 pm

Clarke Markx Goalz wrote: Brander was a mistake really, he may come good, but we would have been on a winner if we took Kelly with that pick instead. In any case the last 3 Brownlow medalists were not from the first round, so I don't think it's that important. The last 2 years have been arguably 2 of the most stressful on record, so I can see people being disappointed, but I still enjoy seeing the majority of this list play. Including Redden. I think Brander could still have a break out year.


Brander has been so mismanaged. There would not be many first round picks at 13 not given the opportunity to get to 50 to 60 games so they can develop into the best player they could become. I think one season building up the body was fair but then he needed games into him or traded. He has skill, but playing him in on a wing always looked like a long shot. Most players play their best footy where they played their junior footy; its about finding the ball and knowing where to be. Though most can become a half back flank, IMO. Brander needs to be in a team that invests with him and he'll be a star; could be us if we commit, could be his next team. That all said I wonder if thrown into the midfield now if he could become a Jobe Watson type; starting where the ball is. Jobe was not much in his first three or four seasons, then into the middle and he became a great (pre peptides).

The delistings are not a surprise, but all excellent clubmen. Vardy was great in 2018 with NN down and Hutchings was the best tagger there was, could shut a player down while getting 20 possessions himself and kicking goals, pity injury's shut him down. Those are the soft calls, now for some hard ones?
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Hamburger on Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:29 pm

Here is my view..
There is no doubt injuries to the established players hurt the balance of the team throughout the season. Most weeks we had 5 or more players go out. Many of the injuries kept players out for long periods and they were underdone when they came back in. Injuries aside the Eagles fitness levels seemed to be below par compared to other teams and the team routinely struggled to run out games.
There needs to be a complete revamp of the fitness and injury management systems. Maybe time for some new people in that space?
The second, glaring problem, alluded to by Vozzo a few months ago is the status and performance of the WAFL team which was basically a punching bag for the other WAFL teams for most of the year. The Eagles AFL list youngsters got very little good experience being on the end of shellackings week in week out. From the comments made by Vozzo it is clear the WAFL set us up to fail with the constraints they placed on recruitment to the WAFL Eagles. The current arrangements need to be fixed urgently or we can expect more of the same next year. There is no doubt there is much to be gained by having those not selected for AFL playing together as a unit at WAFL level BUT it needs to be competitive otherwise the kids are just learning to fail.
The game plan failed on numerous occasions, as we simply could not cope with fast ball movement and could not shut down the opposition when they got a run on. Playing kick to kick across the backline did nothing to help open up play. Sure it kept the opposition from scoring, but did not help get the ball forward and in fact we often ended up deeper in our defensive zone. Typically there was eventually a long kick to a flank where we were either outmarked or the ball came to ground leading to a turnover on the flanks and the ball came back in for a shot on goal. If we got the ball out of bounds we had some chance at the throw in.
We looked much better when we simply did what the other more successful teams were doing, going quickly and direct. We lacked the confidence to try this approach a lot of the time and it’s not clear whether that was fear of turnover or strict instructions from the coaches. Toward the end of the year when we did try to move quickly through the center of the ground (mostly when we tried to claw back a substantial opposition lead), players were clearly unsure what to do and we lacked cohesion. This was most obvious with handball chains. We are terrible at it. Handballs routinely do not reach the target, with a bounce at the feet, or ending up behind a moving target, or the ball is handed off to a stationary target a couple of metres away who is immediately tackled. It appears this is not something the team trains for which is odd as this is the way the most successful teams routinely get through a defensive press? Close quarter handballing under pressure should be a top priority this pre season.
Personnel. On paper, the list still looks formidable.
Midfield. If we assume the injury problems can be overcome then the midfield has depth (Kelly, Sheed, Shuey, Yeo, Gaff, Redden). That is a good first 6 but it lacks pace. Shuey has a serious question mark over whether he can have an injury free year. There are some young mids that to date have not had many games (Edwards, Ainsworth, O'Niell, Jones, West, Winder), or have yet to debut (Trew). Is Petrucelli a mid? Probably the only one with some doubt over their future is Ainsworth.
Hutchings and Ah Chee have been delisted but hopefully one or both will be retained for the WAFL side.
Forwards. JK showed enough to suggest he can play on and apparently there is a one year offer on the table, BUT he is occupying a spot that Allen should be playing. Brander also needs to be given a genuine run in a forward position. He really has not had much of a chance to date to demonstrate he can play a key forward role. If he leaves the club then we are going to need to find another key forward and they take time to develop. Allen is an exception in that respect. Darling started well but tapered off and apparently was carrying an injury. When fit he is a walk up start for one of the key forward roles. Waterman played a 3rd tall role a few times and did ok. All in all we seem to have some key forward depth, but age and injuries may test that in 2022 and we may lose Brander.
Small forwards were a problem this year. Cripps still had an effective year but looks to have lost a bit of pace. Ryan was good when available. I am not convinced about Langdon but it is early days. With Rioli missing, and Jones and Petrucelli suffering significant injuries stocks were low. Young Cameron never got a chance to develop this year due to significant debilitating injuries. If our big guys did not mark the ball, the opposition moved the ball out of defence remarkably easily. With better management and a slice of luck most (all) of our small forwards should be available in 2022 and if they get a decent pre season it could be a more dangerous forward line next year with them at ground level.
Rucks. Nic was magnificent and without him our clearance around the stoppages would have been much worse. He appears to have got through the year well, and hopefully will get another good preseason. Allen pinch hit in the ruck and did well at times, but he is not a ruckman and ended up quite banged up by the end of the year. Vardy was never really in contention for a permanent spot in the 22 and has now retired and returned to the east. A shame as he was pretty good in the WAFL team and they did much better with him there. Williams is still young and to me has a lot of upside. I think we should be playing him in the AFL as a second ruck more often than not. Jamison is probably still a couple of years away. Do we need another ruckman? Might be handy in the event Nic is injured for any period of time. A mature ruck could come in to the senior side in the event either Nic or Williams are out injured and otherwise would be very useful at WAFL level helping the younger mids develop their clearance work.
The Defence. Not that long ago we were slated as having one of the best defences in the AFL but this year has been disappointing. Again injuries to key players had a massive impact with Hurn, Barass, McGovern and Duggan all missing substantial periods. Shep started the year well but tapered off after a couple of nasty concussions/collisions. Cole and Nelson are journeymen players who played their roles but neither provided much drive out of the backline. Harry Edwards did well from limited opportunities and I thought Rotham was good. Witherden is a ready made replacement for Hurn but unfortunately had a significant injury as well. Foley looked ok in limited opportunities, and Johnson and Collins did not get to play AFL. When all players are fit the defence still looks ok to me, but obviously there need to be some changes to the defensive game plan. I don’t think you can blame the defence if the ball is coming in quick and direct due to lack of pressure through the middle of the ground, except to say that when that happens, manning up is a good move which we often failed to do. And the chip kicking back and forth in the defensive 50 did nothing but ramp up pressure, as it just gave the opposition time to set up. Hurn, when fit is one of the longest accurate kicks in the game but often chipped a kick into the back pocket when taking a kick in. Given the new rule which allows the kicker to run out of the goal square, you would think the ball should be landing in the centre most times.
Will be interesting to see whether anyone else is delisted or put up for trade. We are well placed with draft picks this time. Obviously a genuine mid with pace who can kick on either foot is a priority, but otherwise? Perhaps a KPF if we intend to move Brander on and a KPD would not go astray. Otherwise more mids and perhaps use the last pick on a mature ruck backup.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby WC Aquila on Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:13 pm

[quote="Perrythegreat"]


Q: Who should retire? Who should we consider trading?
A: I do think Kennedy will retire. I hope Hurn stays on. Delist maybe Hutchins, Vardy and Ah Chee? Trade bait. Sheed and Nelson?

Someone at Eagles has read your post and taken action.

My thoughts are that I love J Kennedy and S Hurn but it is time to retire, or we risk losing Rotham, Brander, and Allen.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Perrythegreat on Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:48 pm

Ha.

Maybe I should put my hand up for list manager!

We've had a fair bit of off field movement this year as well, with Hickmott going.

Sounds like JK will play on, which if handled well, can work. I actually thought Brander was pretty good when he played this year. Would rather see others gone before him.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Pinion King on Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:00 pm

Our first recruit.

Matthew Knights from Geelong is heading to us.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby gus3232 on Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:09 pm

Second recruit - c'mon down Jarrad Schofield!
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby jourgo on Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:26 pm

That's a couple of good gets. Not at all unhappy with those two guys coming aboard - especially Schofield.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Perrythegreat on Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:28 pm

jourgo wrote:That's a couple of good gets. Not at all unhappy with those two guys coming aboard - especially Schofield.


My thoughts exactly. Very happy with these 2, esp Schofield
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Favonius Aquila on Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:35 pm

Knights from Geelong & Schofield from Port - two teams that got 'pantsed' on the weekend! Schofield did alright at Subi and Knights coached Geelong's VFL team to a premiership. Unless you're an insider (and I'm not!), it's hard to know what they bring to the table - only time will tell.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Roadkill on Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:23 pm

Great gets but they have 1year to work their magic cause most of the current midfield will be retired by 2023.Then they will earn their paycheck with crop of kidswith no experience.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Fair Bump Play On on Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:08 am

Favonius Aquila wrote:Knights from Geelong & Schofield from Port - two teams that got 'pantsed' on the weekend! Schofield did alright at Subi and Knights coached Geelong's VFL team to a premiership. Unless you're an insider (and I'm not!), it's hard to know what they bring to the table - only time will tell.


Smart guys with something new hopefully. Good moves by the club.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby DALBY on Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:13 pm

So happy with these two as well. Well done Eagles.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Pinion King on Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:26 am

Ainsworth, Will Collins (mid season draft) and Ben Johnson are the next group to have been delisted.

Having a bit of a cleanout.
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Re: Ahead to season 2022: Discussion

Postby Mykidsdad on Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:55 pm

Pinion King wrote:Ainsworth, Will Collins (mid season draft) and Ben Johnson are the next group to have been delisted.

Having a bit of a cleanout.



That's 7 so far
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